Subject: Re: Mongolian death rituals
From: "Phillip P. Marzluf" >
Date: 11 Mar 1997 19:03:54 GMT
Message-ID: >

Well, perhaps I can summarize some of the basic ritualistic points of a
contemporary Mongolian funeral since I did certainly observe and document
a
hell of a lot of them.  In my brief stint in Mongolia, about twenty people
that I either knew or vaguely knew died (car accidents, two suicides,
liver
disease, old age, a cop-induced beating, etc.).  Though, bear in mind, I
was definitely the outsider during these rituals and, in a few cases,
merely watched from my apartment window, ever the fairly morbid voyeur.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but...

While the corpse is waiting in the morgue at the local hospital, relatives
gather at the deceased's home and begin the preparations for the funeral. 
This involves in putting up a special "funeral" ger close to where the
person lived, the gathering of friends, the cooking of food (soup, buuz,
and the usual fare), and the basic stuff that all people do before
funerals.  One of my big chores was always to load up one of those Russian
trucks with all the chairs from my classroom so that all these people
would
have someplace to sit.   

I noticed one cultural difference when it came to sympathizing with
mourners.  Though members of my "American culture" (err, if you can say
such a thing) will sit around and mumble condolences (that they might not
even mean), the Mongolians I observed were extremely placid and passive
and
didn't do all that much in the way of sympathy.  I'm not really sure what
that really means, though.

On the day of the funeral -- a day appointed by a lama (there are "good"
and "bad" burial days, but the specifics, alas, escape me), the corpse is
wrapped in a large, silk-like cloth (the color, usually light-blue, but
perhaps red or yellow, again, is of some importance that I now can't
recall), and some sort of "last meeting" ritual is observed whereby all
friends and relatives can give their last goodbyes.

The funeral procession usually consists of those huge, Russian trucks
filled with mourners that slowly drive away to the outskirts of the town
where the cemetery is.  As the trucks depart, one person will follow on
foot for a short time, tossing large spoonfuls of milk into the air.

A Mongolian graveyard resembles that of a stereotypical American one
except
that it is much more democratic.  You don't have to spend cash on
expensive
tombstones and well-manicured plots of grass.  You simply go out there
with
a bunch of guys with shovels, pick a spot, and start digging.  Though I
saw
some nicely-crafted tombstones replete with tin gers, small fences,
propellers, etc., a polished stone with some Old Mongolian script on it is
more the norm.  Mongolians are totally paranoid of cemeteries, and,
besides
a few herders looking for their cows, I was the only one ever hanging out
there and checking out the dates and names of the gravestones (Americans,
alas, are a tad morbid).

After the body has been buried, the trucks traditionally race off away
from
the cemetery.  It is extremely bad luck to look back.

Now, there is a lot more involved, that I can't possibly summarize.  49
days after the burial itself -- I think it's 49 days but, please, somebody
correct me if I am wrong -- Mongolians will throw some kind of celebration
for the deceased.  I'm sure that this has something to do with the Tibetan
Buddhist side of things -- perhaps the bodies final descent to Nirvana --
but, isn't that much too Christian?  Oh well, I was usually too full of
vodka and stuffed with mutton and flour to really comprehend what I or the
Mongolians themselves were actually celebrating.  Someone with more
knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism could inform you about the import of "prayer
flags," a piece of cloth covered with Tibetan script which you might see
hanging from the deceased's window and other aspects of the burial ritual.

For instance, after witnessing a dead person on the side of the road (some
poor old guy who froze while totally intoxicated at night), my Mongolian
counterparts and I went through a "cleansing" ceremony by a Yellow Lama. 
I
know I didn't understand the Tibetan, and I'm sure my Mongolian friends
knew little about what was going on.

Hope this was of some help.  If you have any more specific questions,
please ask, and I'll try to find out where I lost all my brain cells. 
That
arkhi really can render any specifics quickly into pure generalities. I do
have some pictures of cemeteries and a few (with a zoom lens!!!) of the
funeral procession, though I felt like I was committing some form of
cultural rape when I took them.

Most importantly, when you are writing about Mongolia, try to remember
that
its culture is by no means static.  All that crap about the Gobi and
nomads
that you might read about in such superficial accounts as the National
Geographic really has nothing to do with how the vast majority of
Mongolians really do live.  Paging though a recent article in the New York
Times, I found nothing but a bunch of pictures of camels, old men and
women, and the traditional "ger."  The honest nomad.  The Gobi!  Only
tourists want to visit the Gobi.  I only met one Mongolian who actually
wanted anything to do with it and that was only because he could sell his
paintings there at a tourist camp and make a lot of cash.  Michael Jordan,
Madonna, Whitney Houston, Elton John, and the rest are as vital figures in
Mongolia as Chingis Khan is.  I even know people who currently live there
who still claim that 40% of Mongolians are nomads.  That is a complete
joke, an outright lie, and perpetrated by a bunch of Westerners (and I am
not forgetting the Japanese and the Koreans!) who forever want to see
Mongolia as some milk-drinking, herding paradise so that they can still
believe Shangri-La exists even though there own countries are nothing but
glorified department stores.

Wow, sorry about the jeremiad.  But, I guess I meant it.

Again, if you have any questions about the non-nomad, non-Gobi side of
things, please ask.




NHoucek > wrote in article
>...
> I'm doing a project for school and I need information on mongolian
> death/funeral/burial rituals.  Please send me any information on it.  I
> need help!
>

Van kozottunk valaki nyelvesz?
Minap a lanyom megkerdezte, hogy miert keltezzuk levelunket
PecsETT, DebrecenBEN vagy PestEN?
Ugyancsak elutazunk SzolnokRA,  DebrecenBE, etc. Kulonosen a
"T"vegzodes eredete erdekelne, mert mestersegesen tunik
"hagyomanyosnak": nem parosodik mint PestRE PestEn - de nem
PecsRE PecsETT.
Vilagosan megkavarodtatok?
Kosz, udv es pax:
Dominus v.

Ki tudja megerositeni vagy cafolni azt az elmeletet, hogy a magyarok
oshazaja a Tigris es az Eufratesz kozott van? Irodalom ajanlast szivesen
veszek, barmilyen nyelven.
                                   Tamas

Alexander A. Csiszar ) wrote:
: 1996-ban Budapesten vettem "BORSIKAFU" fuszert. A keszitmenyt MATRADROG
: KFT. forgalmazza. Probalom megtalalni ennek a fuszernek az angol nevet, s
: azt, hogy hol tudom USA-ban megszerezni. Valaki azt mondta, hogy az angol
: neve: "PEPPERGRASS" azonban ezen a neven meg a McCormick fuszergyar sem
: ismeri. Amennyiben valaki tud a kedves TIPP-esek kozott informaciot adni
: szivesen vennem.
: Koszonettel,
: Sanyi
Summer savory (Satureja hortensia)

Barna Bozoki

Dominus > wrote 
> Abban is igazad van, hogy nem kell a szennyesunket
> kiteregetni a vilag ele. Valoban a diskurzus idonkent

Aki nem vak es othon el, vagy vannak othon kozeli rokonai, az tudja, hogy
van eleg problema othon.  De ez nem jogosit senkit se arra, hogy az angol
nyelvu listan "A tolvajok es bunozok nemzete" nevu temat futtasson.  Mielot
arra a listara ramentem volna, egy honapig csak olvastam a leveleket.  Mire
ramentem a listara, olyan pipa voltam, hogy egy kicsit elvesztettem a
korlatozasomat.  Akkor jott vissza a tuzjatek!

Ezen a listan es a FORUM-on is melle fogtam egy parszor es mondtam
hulyeseget, de nem tamadtatok gyulolettel.  Valamilyen oknal fogva azt a
kilyelentesemet, hogy akik a nepunknek a kommunista uralom alatt artottak
azok szemetek, az angol nyelvu listan egy paran nagyon szemelyessen vettek.
 Az en idomben ugy mondtuk, hogy akinek nem ingje ne vegye magara, de
akinek ingje az...   

Miota leszaltam a listarol, nem kapok 10-20 csunya levelet naponta. 
Nemelyik nagyon ocsmany volt.  Az AT&T-n keresztul tudok az angol nyelvu
listara levelet irni, de azt csak az olvassa aki nagyon akarja.  Az az
erdekes, hogy ugy buknak a leveleimre mintha ingyen cukor lenne.  Szerintem
elvezik.

Udv: Istvan

Dominus wrote:
> 
> "Istvan Lippai" > wrote:
> >
> >I second it.  She is one classy lady.  I am glad she is on our side.  How
> >about declaring her and honorary Hungarian?
> >Istvan
> 
> By all means. She, probably, will value it.
> Dominus


Thank you once again for your recognition.  I have always admired and
respected your people for your courage and accomplishments.  My husband,
who is German, and who has spent some time in Budapest working with
internationally renowned mathematicians, feels the same way I do.  I am
of course also somewhat biased because I have graduated with both my
undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Dallas which
is a Cistercian Catholic school run by monks from Hungary.  I have
carried on some of the most memorable discussions of my student life
there.  

I further believe that it's not a coincidence that Hungary counts, along
Poland and the Czech republic, among those countries who were successful
at their transition from Communist dictatoriship to democracy.  It has
been your culture, history and world view which has assured you of the
admiration of the Western World (unlike, for example the country I come
from, Romania).

I wil always try to set the record straight as far the injustices that
were and still are committed politically and otherwise against your
country and people and can only congratulate you on your success. Keep
up the good work!!!

Ines 
-- 
?_

Subject: Mongolian Contact in NYC Needed
From:  (EcolineInc)
Date: 3 Mar 1997 09:14:17 GMT
Message-ID: >

Mongolian contact needed in NYC for possible business cooperation.
Anyone interested send E-mail to:   or 

Subject: Re: Mongolian performance arts
From:  (Oliver Corff)
Date: 25 Feb 1997 09:30:27 GMT
Message-ID: >

seahorse ) wrote:
: Hello,
: I am working on putting to togther a project to go to Mongolia to create
: and photo and perhaps video documentary of Mongolian performance arts,
: contortion acrobatics in particular.  Can anyone on this newsgroup
provide
: me with some information as to what agencies in Mongolia I need to
contact
: to get permission for this venture... Any other advice would be very
much
: appreciated.

: Alice Sue Chism


Hello Alice,

As far as I understand Mongolia, there is no real need to get
"permissions" (implying state or police permits to do something)
any more as long as the subject of your interest agrees with your
venture. So, you should get in touch with the National Circus. As
far as I know, however, the circus is on a world tour at the moment
outside Mongolia, and I do not know when they'll return to Mongolia.

As far as the permission theme goes, you do need, of course, a visa
for entering Mongolia, which you need an invitation for. Your host
(considering your project) should ideally be the circus, or the
promotion agency of the circus. With them you may have to negotiate
any licences, too, if this is applicable.

These lines may not be of much help but perhaps they are a start,

Good luck,

Oliver.


--
Dr. Oliver Corff              e-mail:    
c/o Wuertz    Wielandstr. 20  telephone:   ++ 49 - 30 - 852 93 75
12159 Berlin  GERMANY

Wojtek Rypniewski wrote:

> Would the West send their soldiers to die for Bialystok? They most
> certainly would not! And Poland's enemies know it very well.

the worst enemy of Poland is it's paranoia, e.g. obsession with
self-importance.

> Risking all defending Poland is such an absurd idea to the Western mind
> that we Poles should just forget it. Once and for all. Let's stop being
> naive and face the hard truth and then think calmly and without
> illusions what we can really do to protect ourselves.

The best thing you can do is consult a psychotherapist. He might tell you
the story about USA defence secretary who jumped out the window yelling: 
"Russians are coming!"

Tell me for God's sake: what the ***k does Russia need in Poland?! 

Land? 

:-)

Food?

:-))

vodka?

:-(((
not even funny, it's horrible


People?

:-)))))))))))

best luck


Andrei

On 13 Mar 1997 13:21:14 GMT, 
Istvan Lippai > wrote:

>nyelvu listan "A tolvajok es bunozok nemzete" nevu temat futtasson.  Mielot
>arra a listara ramentem volna, egy honapig csak olvastam a leveleket.  Mire
>ramentem a listara, olyan pipa voltam, hogy egy kicsit elvesztettem a
>korlatozasomat.  Akkor jott vissza a tuzjatek!

Persze en is olvasom azt a listat, s teljesen megertettem, hogy egy ido
utan milyen nehez visszafogottan irni oda.  No de nem kell tulsagosan
rostelkedned azert, amit ott kaptal, hiszen meg az olyan szolid irok is,
mint N. Feri, rendszeresen tamadast kapnak.

>Miota leszaltam a listarol, nem kapok 10-20 csunya levelet naponta. 
>Nemelyik nagyon ocsmany volt.  Az AT&T-n keresztul tudok az angol nyelvu
>listara levelet irni, de azt csak az olvassa aki nagyon akarja.  Az az
>erdekes, hogy ugy buknak a leveleimre mintha ingyen cukor lenne.  Szerintem
>elvezik.

Persze, hogy elvezik.  Te "ertelmet" adsz eletuknek. ;-)

Apropo, a napokban valamelyik magyar listan, talan ti is emlekeztek ra,
valaki roviden megirta egy egykor "hires" lengyel szarmazasu zsido iro
eletrajzat, akinek hiressege elso konyvehez fuzodott. A konyvet afele
oneletrajznak tudta a vilag, s az iro es csaladja kalvariajat irja meg 
a Holocaust es az utani evekrol. A haboru alatt allitolag egesz csaladja
elpusztult, stb., stb.  Szoval ebbol a sztoribol csinalt erkolcsi toket
maganak az iro. 

Nos, valaki utolag kinyomozta az iro igazi tortenetet, s kiderult, hogy
a haborut egesz jol atveszelte az iro es csaladja, s utana meg szep kis
karriert is befitottak a kommunista rendszer alatt.  A leleplezest nem
birta ki az iro, s szegyeneben ongyilkos lett.

Elgondolkoztam ezen a torteneten, s arra gondoltam, hogy az ilyen
hazudott holokausztos multak talan gyakoribbak, mint ez az egyetlen
eset, bar ezzel eszem agaban sincs kisebbiteni a Holocaust igazi
szornyusegeit.  Nem tudom Ti hogy vagytok, de amikor az olyan Andy
tipusu, magyar-gyulolok baloldali frocsogeseit hallom allitolagos
szemelyes tragediaik emlegetesevel, mindig felvetodik bennem, hogy
vajon igaz-e az, s nem egyszeruen egy volt AVOs, vagy hasonlo alak
kicsinyes bosszuallasarol van szo. Megis, mit gondoltok, hogyan
nyilatkoznak rolunk az 56-os forradalom elso napjaiban (meg nov. 4.
elott) patkanymodjara elmenekult AVOsok itt Nyugaton?  Ezek kozul
hanyan ismerik el menekulesuk IGAZI okat szerintetek?  A naiv Nyugat
oket is szabadsagharcosokkent fogadta, s amikor az elkopott, johettek
az Andy-szeru "sob storiek."  A felreertesek elkerulese vegett, itt
Andy-t csak egy szimptoma illusztralasa erdekben emlegetem, s eszem agaban
sincs ot szemelyszerint azzal vadolni, amit itt leirtam.  De hat jobb
illusztraciot itt az Interneten hirtelen nem tudok talalni.

Pannon J.
----------
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On 12 Mar 1997 12:50:42 GMT, LZKISS > wrote:
>Karinthy konyvenek a cime "Igy irtok Ti" 

Ja, azert is tettem hozza, hogy "szabadon".

Pannon J.
----------
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in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

Istvan Lippai ) wrote:
: Nem lehetne kicserelni BE-t Ines Weber-el?  Istvan 

Weber-el? miertnem Marcuse vagy Chomsky-val? 

vagy csak klaszikusokrol van itt szo? (Plotinus vagy Augusztin)? :)

janos

On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 12:53:47 +0000, Ines Weber > wrote:

>of course also somewhat biased because I have graduated with both my
>undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Dallas which
>is a Cistercian Catholic school run by monks from Hungary.  I have
>carried on some of the most memorable discussions of my student life
>there.  

Oh, bless you, Ines!  I have visited the monastery of those monks way
back in the '70s and was a guest at their dinner table.  (I think it was
in or around Grapevine, if memory serves.)  The range of
talent of those monks was just amazing!  It's through the fruits of
those talents that they established and developed that university to what
it is today.  I wish more Americans were aware of the contributions of
such quiet and diligent Hungarians as them to the US culture.

So thanks for mentioning them right here, Ines!

Regards,

Joe Pannon
----------
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removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

Dorin M. Petre wrote:
> 
> On 8 Mar 1997 05:20:45 GMT,  () wrote:
> 
> >Where do you think most leftists are "hiding" in the US?
> 
> Mr. Clinton's Cabinet?
> 
> Dorin Petre
or possibly in the Lincoln bedroom?
L Burrows

 > wrote:

>> Egyes elmeletek szerint kedves tortenesz baratunk azonos Maria Egorov AOL-os
>> hallgatonkkal, akinek ezek szerint nem menyecske kene, hanem egy jo nagy ...
..
>> KI NE MONDD!
>> GK
>
>Mondjuk hogy az elmeletek szerint az irantunk elfogult rejtelmes
>tortenesz azonos avval a nonemu illetovel.-Mondjuk, hogy mint mindig,

Ami a legjobb az az, hogy ujabban ugyanarrol a cimrol szinte "tudomanyos
igenyu" cikkek jonnek Mongoliaval kapcsolatban.  

Pannon J.
----------
REMINDER: Please correct my e-mail address in any personal reply by
removing the "antiSPAM." part from it.  I have altered the address
in the hope of defeating address grabbing SPAM software.  Thanks, JP

This is a test message.
A.Sz.

Peter Aradi > wrote 
> en mar tobb mint 35 eve tagja vagyok a Republican Partinak.
> Nagy kulonbseg van valamiben hinni es valamit ellenezni. Azt hogy en jo
> republikanus vagyok az nem zarja ki hogy egy megvalasztott elnokot, aki
> demokrata, is tisztelem.
> Minden politikus gazember! Muszaj mert politikahoz penz kell,
> specialisan egy demokraciaban.
> Udvozlettel egy tanulod

Kedves Peter!
    35 eve tagja vagy a Republican Partinak?  Wow!  Latom, hogy nem en
vagyok az egyeduli oreg ficko a listan.  Ennek nagyon orulok.  Talan meg
talalunk is valamit amibe eggyet ertunk!?
    Nem latod be, hogy a Clinton elnoksege tobb mint tipikus politikai
piszkoskodas?  Szerintem amikor az amerikaiak megvalasztottak Clintont
akkor tudtak, hogy egy olyan embert valasztanak akinek semmi erkolcsi
felfogasa nincs.  Nem erdekelte oket.
    Valami tortent az emberekkel miutan a szovjet veszely elmult.  Most,
hogy nincs valami nagyon gonosz hatalom, ami ellen nekunk kuzdeni kell, az
emberek elvesztettek az erkolcsi iranytuiket.
    Csak ilyen korulmenyek kozott lehetet megvalasztanai egy olyan embert
aki a katona szolgalatot gyavan megtagadta, salyat nepe ellen tuntetett
idegen orszagban, haboru idejen az oroszokkal haverkodott, nozott,
hazudozott, es lopott.  A hideg haboru idelyen ilyen embert sohase
valasztottunk volna meg.
    Te talan azokhoz tartozol akik, annyira tisztelik a hivatalt, hogy ezt
mindd elnezik.  En nem.  Pedig csak az utobbi 5-evben valtottam at
republikanusnak, a Clinton miat.
Udv: Istvan

Nem lehetne kicserelni BE-t Ines Weber-el?  Istvan

 wrote 
> eset, bar ezzel eszem agaban sincs kisebbiteni a Holocaust igazi
> szornyusegeit.

Nem is szabad, mert a zsidok tomeges gyilkolasa nagyon elvetemedett dolog
volt.  Akkor gurulok be amikor valaki azt akarja magyarazni, hogy ebben
magyaroknak jelentos reszuk volt.  Az allatomos es hazug ragalmazas.  Es
ilyent csak a magyar gyulolok mondanak.

Fiatal voltam, de azert lattam volna ha a magyarok gyilkoltak volna
zsidokat.  Arra emlekszem, hogy amikor Horthy beket akart, a magyar katonak
az utcakon mindd orommel lealtak.  Es mi is orultunk, hogy a haborunak vege
lessz.  Akkor jottek a nemetek es nyilasok es hajtottak oket harcolni
tovabbra is.  A magyar jellem nem szereti se a fasisztakat se a
kommunistakat.  

> Nem tudom Ti hogy vagytok, de amikor az olyan Andy
> tipusu, magyar-gyulolok baloldali frocsogeseit hallom allitolagos
> szemelyes tragediaik emlegetesevel, mindig felvetodik bennem, hogy

En se tudom.  Az Internet-en csak azt tudjuk egymasrol amit elmondunk
magunkrol.  Azt irja, hogy a legtobb magyart nem szereti es a kommunistak
is rosszul bantak vele.  Ha tenyleg szenvedett a fasiszta es kommunista
uralom alatt, akkor nem nagyon szeretnem bantani.  Szerintem csak egy kis
buta ember aki nem akar a sajat laban megalni.  Az, hogy zsido az engem nem
zavar.  Vannak horvath, nemet, slovak, roman, zsido,... szarmazasu
magyarok.  Ha hazankat, nepunket becsulod akkor magyar vagy, ha nem akkor
nem.

Eggyik gyerek kori pajtasomnak az apja zsido az anja nemet volt.  Buszke
karakan magyar ember aki egy ropogos magyar menyecsket vett el.  Ez a bajos
roman no aki szereti a magyarokat is zsido.  Nem bannam bevenni magyarnak. 
Ezert nem szeretek altalanoskodni.

Szerintem a BE sokkal nagyobb kart tessz nepunknek.  Komoly tortenelmi,
irodalmi es hazai esemenyek  tudomanyaval nepunket angolul legrosszabb
szinben abrazolja.  Ha csak magyarul irna rosszat rolunk, jol osszkapnank
de tovabb nem menne.  Hogy  tudd egy magyar no igy viselkedni?

> Megis, mit gondoltok, hogyan
> nyilatkoznak rolunk az 56-os forradalom elso napjaiban (meg nov. 4.
> elott) patkanymodjara elmenekult AVOsok itt Nyugaton?  Ezek kozul
> hanyan ismerik el menekulesuk IGAZI okat szerintetek?  A naiv Nyugat
> oket is szabadsagharcosokkent fogadta, s amikor az elkopott, johettek

En is ugy gondolom.  A 200,000 menekult kozott volt egy par ezer
szabadsagharcsos, rengeteg ember aki csak a szabadsag es jobb elet miat
menekult, es egy par ezer mocskos hazaarulo kommunista.  Bizony, jo volt
ahogy az amerikaiak fogadtak benunket.  Azert mindeg halas leszek.
Udv: Istvan

Istvan Lippai > wrote in article
>...
> Erika Kiss > wrote 
> Erika,
>     Persze igazad van, de az a baj, hogy tudok jobbat az alkotmanyos

Azt akartam irni, hogy:
>     Persze igazad van, de az a baj, hogy nem tudok jobbat az alkotmanyos

Kifeletettem a 'nem'-et.
Istvan

Magyar Room az AOLon Menj az AOL ra es akkor "Private Room" es mikor a kis
ablak feljon akkor Ird be  "buadapest"   altalaban estefele vannak tobben
de neha napkozbben is talalsz valakit.

In article >,  
says...
>
>1996-ban Budapesten vettem "BORSIKAFU" fuszert. A keszitmenyt MATRADROG
>KFT. forgalmazza. Probalom megtalalni ennek a fuszernek az angol nevet, 
s
>azt, hogy hol tudom USA-ban megszerezni. Valaki azt mondta, hogy az 
angol
>neve: "PEPPERGRASS" azonban ezen a neven meg a McCormick fuszergyar sem
>ismeri. Amennyiben valaki tud a kedves TIPP-esek kozott informaciot adni
>szivesen vennem.
>Koszonettel,
>Sanyi

A borsikafu az oregano.  Tavaly volt a Hungary listan errol egy 
ertekezes, ugyanis,  mikor en Pesten voltam, egy rokon holgy kozolte 
velem, hogy a csombor az az oregano, es ezt ugy fedezte fel, hogy az 
Olaszorszagbol hazavitt oreganot megszagolta.  Erre kaptam a kovetkezo 
valaszokat:

A csombor = summer savory.  Kicsit borsos ize van, ezert a masik neve 
borsfu (talan ezert keverik ossze a borsikafuvel).  Az oregano magyar 
neve szurokfu, vagy borsikafu.
Az oregano a menta csaladhoz tartozik is evelo, mig  a csombor nem evelo.

Agnes

Poland's enemies... Poland ... threatened by Russia...Military
guarantees...

I'm just curious --- how many Poles really believe in this bullshit?
Rest assured that 99.9(9)% of the ordinary Russians would wish to have
nothing to do with the Poles except conducting business.
The same is true about the Orthodox Ukrainians -
they will never form alliance with Catholic Poland.
For the same reasons Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia will always be 
spiritually linked together - regardless of the intensity of pictures 
that some Poles and American Ukrainians might conjure up in their vivid
imagination.

So let's make business in peace and be happy with our respective 
sovereignties. It is that simple.

Sincerely,
Yuri Omelchenko

Gustav Horvath > wrote in article
>...
> Peter > writes:
> 
> > Nothing _remotely_ close happened in E.Europe. Don't give me Hungary'56
> > and Prague'68 - these were minor incidents. Most of the E. Europe
> > collaborated with Soviets, more or less, just like they collaborated
with nazies
> > (BTW, you name sounds Croatian to me. If you are Croatian, you must
know a lot
> > about collaboration with nazies).
> 
> In this posting not only your bias is apparent but mentioning Hungary '56
and 
> Prague '68 in the same sentence also shows that you don't know shit from
honey.
> There is no comparison at all! I do not know much about the other Horvath
but 
> despite the sounding of my name I AM Hungarian. I do not care for neither
nazis 
> or commies. It is too bad though that (similarly to other spreaders of
this kind 
> of crap) you don't have the guts to disclose your FULL NAME. In that case
at 
> least we could pass some judgements about your ancestors as well.
> Gustav  

Gustav, do you see what I mean by communist garbage?  I don't believe that
this guy would pick on your name, and do not have the guts to write under
his own.  Maybe, he has good reason to!?

I think I know the main reason 'communist garbage' resent the Hungarian
uprising to gain independence from the Soviets, and to free the country
from communist rule.

It showed the world the inhuman, anti-worker, anti-freedom, murderous, ugly
face of communism.  They have lost the ability to fool people into thinking
that they cared for the people.  The Soviet tanks crushed not only the
bodies of young Hungarian freedom fighters, they also crushed the facade of
communist lies.  In 1956, the international communist movement took a
beating that they never recovered from. 

I suppose that is the reason why the communists hate us.

Istvan   


 




  


 

 



 
>