Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX SCM 547
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-12-12
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Finnish related to Turkish? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Talking about movies ... (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
3 Spinning Yarns on a Concrete Thread (mind)  84 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: SCM: Re: The English Patient (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: SCM: The new SecState and Central Europe (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
7 ...events of December 1, 1918 in Gyulafehervar, Transyl (mind)  259 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Hungarian proverb (mind)  210 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Hungarian proverb (mind)  210 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: *** HUNGARY *** #813 (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Finnish related to Turkish? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

some brief comments on the turkish:

 sakIn (should be sakin - sa:kin), sahra, tekmil, kuvvet (but turkish kol - 
qol -, arm, might be relevant) ciltlemek (from cilt - jild) are loanwords 
from arabic huysuzluk (from huy, xu:y), nam are loanwords from persian.
ki (?exactly which language / dialect?) should be kim.
for ol- (to become, be) most turkic languages have bol-
for o"ksu"rmek (to cough), note o"g~u"rmek (to retch, vomit) which is more 
relevant. for s^olpan most turkic languages (for example old turkish) have 
c^olpan (s^ < c^ being typically qIrgIz). for elma (apple) the vowel harmonic 
alma also exists.
+ - Re: Talking about movies ... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Yes, the Madonna movie was filmed in Budapest; and yes, you are
forgiven!!! <g>

HipCat
-- 
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/
+ - Spinning Yarns on a Concrete Thread (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From:  (AND Books): 5 Dec 1996
Subject: Re: Multiple droppings by Wally (PROPP)
Message-ID: >
References: >
>

|the road crossing egg had an I
|                                n
|                                   c
|                                      l
|                             f           i
|                               o            nation!
                                  r
                              
                                     a
                             
                              i         d
                       re?       n        e
                                            s
                                       c      t
                                           a    i
                                               r  NATION!
                                                i
                                              g
                                            a
                                          m
                                        i

                                     f
                                   o


|WOW! POW! igo yoogo lecso
                          The sub version of subVerse

|re-minds me of: straight vs curve vs wooden wheeler yielding a 3
|legged cheer!
|
|code indeed! morphemes more hidden than a cigar smokin, brick
|totin, billowing
|ape trying to catch a busz to see another dog'n'pony show....
|
|keep goin, and goin, and going...like a hare, a hare, a hare
|<that's concrete

We are Units of Verse of the UnitVerse!
Others are Binary Bits of B-Anality!
The Mediogres of Mediocrity mulchinthegulch.

|Wally Keeler ) wrote:
|:Gyorgy Kovacs ) writes:
|:> Wally, Wally, you can't even keep your crap in one piece.
|<SNIPSNUB>
|: I was referring to YOUR chicks, you know Yugo,
|<SNIPSNUB>
|:one-dimensional -- you spell it the 
|:one-&-only-politically-correct-way.
|:Like I once said, you are grey scale to my technicolor.
|                            ^^^^^^^^^^<<<<>>>^^^^^^^^^^^
|you're a vizual-whizzard -- halftone vs 4-color separation, the
|former lurks betwixt the shadows of black vs. white, while the
|latter does the same four times over yielding us the illusion of
|color... both need a well focused lens that can gather the
|light... both need a non visually challenged see-her! so how's
|your F-STOP already?

The aperture is an open mind, while others should be closed for
repairs. Concrete poetry is an opportunity for the Imperson
Nation to prevail.

|:>>>Yawn ....
|:Besides, it gives me an opportunity to exercise my inclination
|:towards the
|
|... road?
|
|like a toad, a toad, a toad.... now resting on a pond in lilium
|janos
       City Zen of Halluci Nation?
                      Lucy
                           in
                              Sky
                                  with
                                       Dima.
+ - Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:
> 
> ing. Jeroen M.W. van Dijk > wrote:
> >
> >The americans livings standards is only good for the
> >companies and the rich people.
> 
> I wonder why then everybody wants to come here.  


This is also not true, however. The Americans
just like to believe in it just because people from all
over the world (but _not everybody_ in the world)
come to America.

MK
+ - Re: SCM: Re: The English Patient (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:
> 
> Johanne L. Tournier  > wrote:
> 
> >on CBC radio today in which a gentleman whose name I did not catch was
> >criticizing the fact that the Almasy of the movie was portrayed as a
> >romantic dreamer who is so in love that, in order to save his lady fair, he
> >collaborates with the Nazis. This gentleman says that the *real* Almasy
> >willingly collaborated with the Nazis and that books and movies should be
> >truer to the historical truth of these things. I thought that was
> >interesting, because it indicates that this Almasy was based on a historical
> >character. Maybe the same one who, according to someone on SCM, discovered
> >the Arabs of Hungarian descent living in Egypt in the 1920's. It would be

BTW, those are the Magyarabs!(Sudan,Egypt,upper course of the Nile)
PK
+ - Re: SCM: The new SecState and Central Europe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 wrote:
> 
> The nomination of Madeline Allbright to head the State Dept should be
> good for East/Central European countries, IMHO.  (Especially for the
> Czech republic, of course. ;-) With her background our old countries
> should get a better and more realistic hearing at the White House and
> other Western centers of power.

Very cautious optimism is in order, at the best; nonetheless I prefer
her any time,compared to the gutless, witless Christopher.At least can
stand up to the Russians too, and has a better understanding of the
region.Even that is something.

Peter Kovalszki
+ - ...events of December 1, 1918 in Gyulafehervar, Transyl (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

In news items, now and in the future, you will see references to the
events of December 1, 1918 in Gyulafehervar.  For democracy to succeed at
all in this perhaps-new era in Rumania, you need to remind any and all:=20
your representatives, your friends, your friends in the media, of the
history of that day. And that none of the commitments Rumania solemnly
entered into---then or since--- has yet been kept.=20

In both world wars, Rumania was on both sides at least once. As the West
considers including Rumania in NATO and EU, it must look at its history
and consider a most serious issue: Is it now acceptable behavior for a
potential new member to enter into treaty obligations, break them, and
engage in ethnic cleansing? That has been Rumania's clear, consistent
record since 1918.=20

Consider the history of that event in 1918, conveniently forgotten.=20
Trianon would not dismember Hungary and award Transylvania for another
year and a half.=20

December 1918 was a time, when, after Rumania joined the Allies and in
contravention of the Armistice, its troops advanced and occupied
Transylvania and other parts of Hungary. Recall, General Harry Hill
Bandholtz (United States), on October 5, 1919 prevented the theft by
Rumanian troops illegally in Budapest of the treasures of the National
Museum, including the Crown of St. Stephen.=20

Here is part of the declaration that was adopted in 1918 by the Rumanians
in Gyulafehervar:=20

"The new Rumanian state declares the following to be its basic, founding
principles:=20

1. The total freedom for the nationalities now living together. Every
nationality will have its own representatives from its own national
community , use its own language, its own educational system, its own
government and justice system. Every nationality will participate in the
bringing of laws and governing of the country, in proportion to its
population.=20

2. Equal rights (ie, no preferred or state religion) and total
denominational freedom for all of the country's denominations...."=20

So impressive, to western eyes and ears were these principles, that they
were incorporated into the treaty signed a year later as solemn
obligations Rumania pledged to assume and carry out.

I quote exactly:

TREATY BETWEEN THE PRINCIPAL ALLIED AND=20
ASSOCIATED POWERS AND ROUMANIA

Signed 9th December 1919

The United States of America, the British Empire, France,
Italy and Japan,

The Principal Allied and Associated Powers, on the one hand; and=20
Roumania, on the other hand,

Whereas under Treaties to which the Principal Allied and Associated Powers
are parties large accessions of territory are being and will be made to
the Kingdom of Roumania, and

Whereas Roumania desires of her own free will to give full guarantees of
liberty and justice to all inhabitants both of the old Kingdom of Roumania
and of the territory added thereto, to whatever race, language or religion
they may belong, and (this word =93and=94 is an obvious error in the text)=
=20

Have, after examining the question together, agreed to conclude the
present Treaty:=20

Chapter I

Article 1

Roumania undertakes that the stipulations contained in Articles 2 to 8 of
this Chapter shall be recognized as fundamental laws, and that no law,
regulation or official position shall conflict or interfere with these
stipulations, nor shall any law, regulation or official action prevail
over them.=20

Article 2

Roumania undertakes to assure full and complete protection of life and
liberty to all inhabitants of Roumania without distinction of birth,
nationality, language, race or religion.=20

All inhabitants of Roumania shall be entitled to the free exercise,
whether public or private, of any creed, religion or belief, whose
practices are not inconsistent with public order and public morals.=20

Article 8

Subject to the special provisions of the Treaties mentioned below,
Roumania admits and declares to be Roumanian nationals ipso facto and
without the requirement of any formality all persons habitually resident
at the date of the coming into force of the present Treaty within the
whole territory of Roumania, including the extensions made by the Treaties
of Peace with Austria and Hungary, or any other extensions which may
hereafter be made, if such persons are not at that date nationals of a
foreign State other than Austria or Hungary.=20

Nevertheless, Austrian and Hungarian nationals who are over eighteen years
of age will be entitled under the conditions contained in the said
Treaties to opt for any other nationality which may be open to them.=20
Option by a husband will cover his wife and option by parents will cover
their children under eighteen years of age.=20

Persons who have exercised the above right to opt must, within the
succeeding twelve months, transfer their place of residence to the State
for which they have opted. They will be entitled to retain their immovable
property in Roumanian territory. They may carry with them their movable
property of every description. No export duties may be imposed upon them
in connexion with the removal of such property.=20

Article 4

Roumania admits and declares to be Roumanian nationals ipso facto and
without the requirement of any formality persons of Austrian [or]
Hungarian nationality who were born in the territory transferred to
Roumania by the Treaties of Peace with Austria and Hungary, or
subsequently transferred to her, of parents habitually resident there,
even if at the date of the coming into force of the present Treaty they
are not themselves habitually resident there.=20

Nevertheless, within two years after the coming into force of the present
Treaty these persons may make a declaration before the competent Roumanian
authorities in the country in which they are resident, stating that they
abandon Roumanian nationality, and they will then cease to be considered
as Roumanian nationals. In this connexion a declaration by a husband will
cover his wife, and a declaration by parents will cover their children
under eighteen years of age.=20

Article 5

Roumania undertakes to put no hindrance in the way of the exercise of the
right which persons concerned have, under the Treaties concluded or to be
concluded by the Allied and Associated Powers with Austria or Hungary to
choose whether or not they will acquire Roumanian nationality.=20

Article 6

All persons born in Roumanian territory who are not born nationals of
another State shall ipso facto become Roumanian nationals.=20

Article 7

Roumania undertakes to recognize as Roumanian nationals ipso facto and
without the requirement of any formality Jews inhabiting any Roumanian
territory who do not possess another nationality.=20

Article 8

All Roumanian nationals shall be equal before the law and shall enjoy the
same civil and political rights without distinction as to race, language
or religion.=20

Differences of religion, creed or confession shall not prejudice any
Rumanian national in matters relating to the enjoyment of civil or
political rights, as, for instance, admission to public employments,
functions and honours, or the exercise of professions and industries.=20

No restriction shall be imposed on the free use by any Roumanian national
of any language in private intercourse, in commerce, in religion, in the
Press or in publications of any kind, or at public meetings.=20

Notwithstanding any establishment by the Roumanian Government of an
official language, adequate facilities shall be given to Roumanian
nationals of non-Roumanian speech for the use of their language, either
orally or in writing, before the courts.=20

Article 9=20

Roumanian nationals who belong to racial, religious or linguistic
minorities shall enjoy the same treatment and security in law and in fact
as the other Roumanian nationals. In particular they shall have an equal
right to establish, manage and control at their own expense, charitable,
religious and social institutions, schools and other
educationalestablishments, with the right to use their own language and to
exercise their religion freely therein.

Article 10

Roumania will provide in the public educational system in towns and
districts in which a considerable proportion of Roumanian nationals of
other Roumanian speech are resident adequate facilities for ensuring that
in the primary schools the instruction shall be given to the children of
such Roumanian nationals through the medium of their own language. This
provision shall not prevent the Roumanian Government from making the
teaching of the Roumanian language obligatory in the said schools.

In towns and districts where there is a considerable proportion of
Roumanian nationals belonging to racial, religious or linguistic
minorities, these minorities shall be assured an equitable share in the
enjoyment and application of the sums which may be provided out of public
funds under the State, municipal or other budget, for educational,
religious or charitable purposes.=20

Article 11=20

Roumania agrees to accord to the communities of the Saxons and Czecklers
in Transylvania local autonomy in regard to scholastic and religious
matters, subject to the control of the Roumanian State.

Of course, none of these rights has yet been granted. They apparently were
intended only to impress the West, to enjoy its benefits without granting
all its citizens their God-given rights.=20

Unspoken, of course, are the "achievements" so far of that dream of
Greater Rumania. Since 1940, practically all of the mainly-Hungarian
Jewish population have been exterminated. In all, well over 1.5 million
Hungarians, Germans, Roma have been exterminated or expelled.

The Rumanians grasped the dangers of documentation to denials. When the
atrocity happened either no record was kept or maintained as secret.=20

December 1, then, is truly a day of celebration a Ceausescu, a Funar, an
Antonescu, an Iliescu would love. But only so long as they forget the
obligations they willingly entered into on that day in 1918 and solemnly
signed a year later.

December 1, 1918 and December 9, 1919 are days of shame for the West, for
they were hoodwinked then, repeatedly since.=20

December 1, 1918 and December 9, 1919 are days of mourning for those
countless individuals in Transylvania and Rumania who have lost their
lives: Hungarians, Szekelys, Jews singled out for special protection by
the treaty.=20

December 1 and 9 could be days of hope if the Rumanian Government should
repent, return to those obligations it freely undertook.=20

Will the current president be different? Other early signs show no more
promise. The appointment of an Hungarian to the ministry of tourism in a
country without good hotels or roads is hardly encouraging. The
appointment of another Hungarian to another post, not even ministerial and
without authority gives no encouragement.

If you want to understand the significance of the appointments, consider
the following. I have not yet seen any of the wire services mention the
appointment of the two Hungarians. The appointment to a leadership post of
Petre Roman, anti-Semitic and anti-Hungarian, has received frequent
notice. The irony is that Roman is the descendant of a distinguished
Hungarian rabbinical family.=20

The public events are consistent with the declarations of 1918 and the
Treaty signed a year later: Do something to impress the West. Their
interest will soon flag, then resume the successful pursuit of the
objective of an ethnically pure Greater Rumania.

The event described below is, thus, rich in symbolism and with ominous
portent for those who had hoped for a government that would become part of
the West. It was intended as a clear signal to the Hungarians and all
other now-minorities: Rumania would be a country of rights determined by
ethnicity and religion, granted by the government and not God-given. The
Rumanian Orthodox Church would continue as the state religion, all others
will still be termed and treated as "cults." JAB)=20
+ - Re: Hungarian proverb (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Tony) wrote:
>In >  (jeff
>nunner) writes: 
>>
>>Hey... my friend's grandmother once taught me a Hungarian (Magyar,
>even?)
>>saying which was the Anglo-equivalent of "the boy who cried wolf".  In
>>English, it was loosely translated as "The girl got up one morning and
>>didn't want to go to school, so she said her toe hurt, but her mother
>>found out and made her go anyway."  And it's pronounced: (my ASCII IPA
>>isn't perfect. Please be gentle with flames...)
>>
>>	[IS kilaba fail lalaba xUzai nEmi nEmfai SEmi]
>>
>>If anyone could help me and tell me how to spell it in Hungarian and a
>
>>more exact English-translation, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks!
>

Lassuk csak! Iskola'ba fel a lala'ba hazamenni nem fa'j semmi (?)
                       ^^^ (I think this "fel" or "fail" as is originally 
typed should be "faj") 

                

What the??? I think the translation would roughly fall along the lines of 
"One hurts its leg going to school, one doesn't hurt anything by going 
home" Not quite "a boy who cried wolf" but maybe my own translation is 
screwed up. 
>
>I think you have parts of the pronunciation slightly wrong.   The
>Hungarian for "to school" is "iskolaba".   (I believe the "-ba" ending
>means "to").

"-ba"/"-be" suffixes roughly corresponds to "into" or "to" prepositions. 
"-ra"/"-re" or "-nak"/"-nek" roughly corresponds to "to" or "for" 
prepositions.
>
>So the first word would be "Iskolaba", one word.  Now my Hungarian
>isn't very good; the only way I know this is my contact with a
>long-time ex-girlfriend who is Hungarian, with her family, and from our
>travels in Hungary.   The last word, "semi" is pronounced "SHEM-mi" and
>means "nothing".   I really doubt the whole English sentence you wrote
>above could be translated into that short a phrase in Hungarian.  
>Although Hungarian is a (somewhat?) agglutinative language (like
>Turkish), it generally uses no fewer words to express thoughts than
>most other European languages.   I realize Hungarian is not rooted in
>European languages, that its roots are in north Asia (specifically
>western Siberia, which is now part of Russia).   But actually, I found
>Hungarian quite easy to learn, much easier than, say, Russian, which is
>supposedly closer to most other languages of Europe (being of the
>Indo-European family).  The pronunciation of Hungarian is very
>straightforward; the diacritics and spelling rules are a bit peculiar,
>but very consistant.  Hungarian doesn't have many unpronounceable
>sounds, like Russian or Czech.   You have to get used to accenting the
>first syllable on EVERY word in Hungarian, no matter how long the word
>is.   For instance, the name of the country is "Magyarorszag", accented
>on the "MA".   There are even words much longer, but still accented on
>that first syllable.   To me, Hungarian was so easy to pick up that I
>would often string together my own sentences using vocabulary I had
>picked up, and conjugating my own verbs ad hoc according to the rules I
>had absorbed -- and actually be UNDERSTOOD by the Hungarians around me!
>
>Another amazing thing I have observed:  the striking similarity in
>sound between Hungarian and Turkish, to those who (like myself) speak
>neither language.   Somewhere, a long time ago, I may have read that
>Hungarian was somehow related to Turkish; but I cannot find such
>references now -- it seems the only other modern language of any
>importance related to Hungarian is Finnish.   Nevertheless, I have
>Turkish neighbors and I am amazed at the similarity of the "sound" of
>Hungarian and Turkish!   
>
>The grammatical rules are pretty consistent.   Interestingly, though
>Hungarian is an Asiatic (Finno-Ugric) language, its grammatical rules
>seem to roughly parallel those of Western, Indo-European languages.  
>For instance, there is a consistent infinitive verb form, marked by the
>suffix "-ni" in most cases.   You conjugate verbs much like you do,
>say, in the Romance languages:  I want to eat is "En akkarak enni" --
>"en" is "I", akkarak is the first person singular of the verb "to
>want", the "-ak" ending denoting the proper conjugated form.   The verb
>"to eat" appears in its infinitive form, immediately after the verb "I
>want".   This is EXACTLY like French, Spanish, and Italian!   To me,
>that's an amazing coincidence, given that Hungarian isn't even remotely
>related to those languages.   

Originally, Magyar was more of a SOV language however, its word order is 
very free and only one golden rule is followed in word order, emphasis.

Ex. E'n akarok enni = I want to eat ("I" and only "I" - no one else)

Ja'nos egy haza't ke'rek = John is looking for a HOUSE (and nothing else)

Ja'nos ke'rek egy haza't = JOHN is looking for a house (and nobody else)

Ke'rek egy haza't = I'm LOOKING for a house (I'm looking for a house 
only - not doing anything else with it like painting or wrecking it.)

>I could go on with my observations about Hungarian....does anyone out
>there have an explanation for these seeming coincidences?   Can anyone
>provide other examples of striking similarities between Hungarian and
>Indo-European languages?
>
>Tony

Latin: uxor (wife)
Magyar: asszony (madam)

English: copy
Magyar: ke'p (picture, portrait)

English: sister / German: Schwester / French: soeur / Latin: soror
Magyar: szu"z (virgin)

English: night / German: Nacht / French: nuit / Latin: nox
Magyar: nyugat (west - where the sun sets giving way to NIGHT)

English: sigh
Magyar: sohajtozik

English: milk / German: milch
Magyar: mell (breast)

English: water / German: Wasser / Russian: vod
Magyar: vi'z

English: seven / German: Sieben / French: sept / Greek: hepta
Magyar: he't

English: ten / Latin: deci / French: dix
Magyar: ti'z

Remember the centum/saetum theory of the I-E languages??? (centum = 
saetum = "hundred")
Magyar: sza'z

English: berry
Magyar: eper (strawberry - this match is very questionable)

Greek: Pyros (fire - connatation of fire)
Magyar: piros (red)

French: four (oven)
Magyar: forro' (burning)

Russian: chetirye (four)
Magyar: csu:to:rto:k (Thursday - fourth day of the week)

Greek: penta (five)
Magyar: pe'ntek (Friday - fifth day of the week)

English: fair
Magyar: fehe'r (white)

French: fils (son)
Magyar: fiu' (boy)

Latin: qui (who) / French: qui (who)
Magyar: ki (who)

French: tu (you - personal pronoun)
Magyar: te (you - 2nd person pronoun)

English: me, I (1st personal pronoun)
Magyar: "-m" suffix (this "-m" suffix is used in many cases - ex. 
"enni" = to eat "esz-em" = I eat. The "-m" suffix is also used to denote 
possession by the first person ex. "ko:nyv" = book "a ko:nyv-em = my 
book.)

English: we
Magyar: mi

English: see
Magyar: szem (eye)

Latin: sem (seed - English derivative = semen)
Magyar: szem (seed - not "eye" in this context)

English: ewe
Magyar: juh (goat, lamb - I think this match is a fluke)

English: suck
Magyar: szi'v (heart, it sucks in)

English: volcano / Latin: Vulcan (God of Fire)
Magyar: meleg (hot - where the "m" sound is related to the "v" sound)

Hindu: ektu (one)
Magyar: egy (pronounced e-dy)

Farsi (Iranian): hezar (thousand)
Magyar: ezer (thousand)

I'm not one to say that the ancient Magyars borrowed or derived a lot of 
their words from I-E languages (in fact I think its the other way 
around!) but these correspondences are interesting and a few of 
Greenburg's Norstratic advocates would find these words useful in 
boosting a Norstratic language family (Indo-European, Turanian and the 
Paleo-Siberian language families as one large superfamily). I personally 
believe that the ultimate root of Magyar is Sumerian and that several 
ethno-linguistic families including Indo-European and Turanian recieved 
strong influence from the Sumerians during History. However, based on my 
readings and understanding of Magyar history and ancient history, I 
believe that the modern Hungarians are a Sumerian-related people if not 
direct descendants of them. I am aware that I am being laughed at but I 
genuinely believe this to be true and I'm not forcing anyone to believe 
me...

Cheers,

Peter Chong
+ - Re: Hungarian proverb (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Tony) wrote:
>In >  (jeff
>nunner) writes: 
>>
>>Hey... my friend's grandmother once taught me a Hungarian (Magyar,
>even?)
>>saying which was the Anglo-equivalent of "the boy who cried wolf".  In
>>English, it was loosely translated as "The girl got up one morning and
>>didn't want to go to school, so she said her toe hurt, but her mother
>>found out and made her go anyway."  And it's pronounced: (my ASCII IPA
>>isn't perfect. Please be gentle with flames...)
>>
>>	[IS kilaba fail lalaba xUzai nEmi nEmfai SEmi]
>>
>>If anyone could help me and tell me how to spell it in Hungarian and a
>
>>more exact English-translation, I would really appreciate it.  Thanks!
>

Lassuk csak! Iskola'ba fel a lala'ba hazamenni nem fa'j semmi (?)
                       ^^^ (I think this "fel" or "fail" as is originally 
typed should be "faj") 

                

What the??? I think the translation would roughly fall along the lines of 
"One hurts its leg going to school, one doesn't hurt anything by going 
home" Not quite "a boy who cried wolf" but maybe my own translation is 
screwed up. 
>
>I think you have parts of the pronunciation slightly wrong.   The
>Hungarian for "to school" is "iskolaba".   (I believe the "-ba" ending
>means "to").

"-ba"/"-be" suffixes roughly corresponds to "into" or "to" prepositions. 
"-ra"/"-re" or "-nak"/"-nek" roughly corresponds to "to" or "for" 
prepositions.
>
>So the first word would be "Iskolaba", one word.  Now my Hungarian
>isn't very good; the only way I know this is my contact with a
>long-time ex-girlfriend who is Hungarian, with her family, and from our
>travels in Hungary.   The last word, "semi" is pronounced "SHEM-mi" and
>means "nothing".   I really doubt the whole English sentence you wrote
>above could be translated into that short a phrase in Hungarian.  
>Although Hungarian is a (somewhat?) agglutinative language (like
>Turkish), it generally uses no fewer words to express thoughts than
>most other European languages.   I realize Hungarian is not rooted in
>European languages, that its roots are in north Asia (specifically
>western Siberia, which is now part of Russia).   But actually, I found
>Hungarian quite easy to learn, much easier than, say, Russian, which is
>supposedly closer to most other languages of Europe (being of the
>Indo-European family).  The pronunciation of Hungarian is very
>straightforward; the diacritics and spelling rules are a bit peculiar,
>but very consistant.  Hungarian doesn't have many unpronounceable
>sounds, like Russian or Czech.   You have to get used to accenting the
>first syllable on EVERY word in Hungarian, no matter how long the word
>is.   For instance, the name of the country is "Magyarorszag", accented
>on the "MA".   There are even words much longer, but still accented on
>that first syllable.   To me, Hungarian was so easy to pick up that I
>would often string together my own sentences using vocabulary I had
>picked up, and conjugating my own verbs ad hoc according to the rules I
>had absorbed -- and actually be UNDERSTOOD by the Hungarians around me!
>
>Another amazing thing I have observed:  the striking similarity in
>sound between Hungarian and Turkish, to those who (like myself) speak
>neither language.   Somewhere, a long time ago, I may have read that
>Hungarian was somehow related to Turkish; but I cannot find such
>references now -- it seems the only other modern language of any
>importance related to Hungarian is Finnish.   Nevertheless, I have
>Turkish neighbors and I am amazed at the similarity of the "sound" of
>Hungarian and Turkish!   
>
>The grammatical rules are pretty consistent.   Interestingly, though
>Hungarian is an Asiatic (Finno-Ugric) language, its grammatical rules
>seem to roughly parallel those of Western, Indo-European languages.  
>For instance, there is a consistent infinitive verb form, marked by the
>suffix "-ni" in most cases.   You conjugate verbs much like you do,
>say, in the Romance languages:  I want to eat is "En akkarak enni" --
>"en" is "I", akkarak is the first person singular of the verb "to
>want", the "-ak" ending denoting the proper conjugated form.   The verb
>"to eat" appears in its infinitive form, immediately after the verb "I
>want".   This is EXACTLY like French, Spanish, and Italian!   To me,
>that's an amazing coincidence, given that Hungarian isn't even remotely
>related to those languages.   

Originally, Magyar was more of a SOV language however, its word order is 
very free and only one golden rule is followed in word order, emphasis.

Ex. E'n akarok enni = I want to eat ("I" and only "I" - no one else)

Ja'nos egy haza't ke'rek = John is looking for a HOUSE (and nothing else)

Ja'nos ke'rek egy haza't = JOHN is looking for a house (and nobody else)

Ke'rek egy haza't = I'm LOOKING for a house (I'm looking for a house 
only - not doing anything else with it like painting or wrecking it.)

>I could go on with my observations about Hungarian....does anyone out
>there have an explanation for these seeming coincidences?   Can anyone
>provide other examples of striking similarities between Hungarian and
>Indo-European languages?
>
>Tony

Latin: uxor (wife)
Magyar: asszony (madam)

English: copy
Magyar: ke'p (picture, portrait)

English: sister / German: Schwester / French: soeur / Latin: soror
Magyar: szu"z (virgin)

English: night / German: Nacht / French: nuit / Latin: nox
Magyar: nyugat (west - where the sun sets giving way to NIGHT)

English: sigh
Magyar: sohajtozik

English: milk / German: milch
Magyar: mell (breast)

English: water / German: Wasser / Russian: vod
Magyar: vi'z

English: seven / German: Sieben / French: sept / Greek: hepta
Magyar: he't

English: ten / Latin: deci / French: dix
Magyar: ti'z

Remember the centum/saetum theory of the I-E languages??? (centum = 
saetum = "hundred")
Magyar: sza'z

English: berry
Magyar: eper (strawberry - this match is very questionable)

Greek: Pyros (fire - connatation of fire)
Magyar: piros (red)

French: four (oven)
Magyar: forro' (burning)

Russian: chetirye (four)
Magyar: csu:to:rto:k (Thursday - fourth day of the week)

Greek: penta (five)
Magyar: pe'ntek (Friday - fifth day of the week)

English: fair
Magyar: fehe'r (white)

French: fils (son)
Magyar: fiu' (boy)

Latin: qui (who) / French: qui (who)
Magyar: ki (who)

French: tu (you - personal pronoun)
Magyar: te (you - 2nd person pronoun)

English: me, I (1st personal pronoun)
Magyar: "-m" suffix (this "-m" suffix is used in many cases - ex. 
"enni" = to eat "esz-em" = I eat. The "-m" suffix is also used to denote 
possession by the first person ex. "ko:nyv" = book "a ko:nyv-em = my 
book.)

English: we
Magyar: mi

English: see
Magyar: szem (eye)

Latin: sem (seed - English derivative = semen)
Magyar: szem (seed - not "eye" in this context)

English: ewe
Magyar: juh (goat, lamb - I think this match is a fluke)

English: suck
Magyar: szi'v (heart, it sucks in)

English: volcano / Latin: Vulcan (God of Fire)
Magyar: meleg (hot - where the "m" sound is related to the "v" sound)

Hindu: ektu (one)
Magyar: egy (pronounced e-dy)

Farsi (Iranian): hezar (thousand)
Magyar: ezer (thousand)

I'm not one to say that the ancient Magyars borrowed or derived a lot of 
their words from I-E languages (in fact I think its the other way 
around!) but these correspondences are interesting and a few of 
Greenburg's Norstratic advocates would find these words useful in 
boosting a Norstratic language family (Indo-European, Turanian and the 
Paleo-Siberian language families as one large superfamily). I personally 
believe that the ultimate root of Magyar is Sumerian and that several 
ethno-linguistic families including Indo-European and Turanian recieved 
strong influence from the Sumerians during History. However, based on my 
readings and understanding of Magyar history and ancient history, I 
believe that the modern Hungarians are a Sumerian-related people if not 
direct descendants of them. I am aware that I am being laughed at but I 
genuinely believe this to be true and I'm not forcing anyone to believe 
me...

Cheers,

Peter Chong
+ - Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
BeeJay > writes:

> On 6 Dec 1996  wrote:
 
[...]
 
> > Yeap!  I also found it ironic for somebody from Holland to point fingers
> > at US and blaming us for major drug addiction.  Is there a more liberal
> > developed country with regards to drug usage than Holland?
 
> Don't think so...

No.  So?  What do liberal laws w.r.t. drug *usage* have to do with the extent
of drug *abuse*?  Relative numbers for drug addiction are higher in the States
than in the Netherlands.  And how did the prohibition help curbing alcohol
abuse?  It merely enriched the mafia.

Cheers,
Karel
-- 
-- Karel Stokkermans, RISC-Linz, Schloss Hagenberg, Austria, Europa
 -- email: 
  -- url: http://info.risc.uni-linz.ac.at:70/1/people/kstokker
   -- rsssf: http://info.risc.uni-linz.ac.at:70/0h/misc-info/rsssf/nersssf.html
"O hoe vergeefs / des doelmans hand / zich strekte naar de bal    [  21-6-88,  
]
 die 'een minuut / voor tijd de Duitse / doellijn kruiste..."     [ J. Deelder 
]
+ - Re: *** HUNGARY *** #813 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I would like to know as much about Meszes (the Balazs's) or Szendro
(the Josvai's aka Josvay) Hungary....My ancestors are from these
places as shown by the applicable names

apparently Meszes was so small when the Balasz's were there, that
the place was called a little hamlet, population 100 i would like to
know if that is still the case

I would love postcards from either place but in the mean time e mail
me in the USA

Thank you from America
Suzi Josvai


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