In article >,
RK > wrote:
| In >  (Istvan
| Szucs) writes: 
| 
| >Szoval mitol bolsevik a  bolsevik? Mit tett Peto, Magyar
| >Balint, Demszky, hogy kierdemelje a bolsevik jelzot?
| 
| 
|     hmm...szep lista....AVO-s es parttittkar  szulokkel felszerelve.
| A Horn elvtars es a tobbi hazafi kifelejtve....a Goncz multja
| eltuntetve....felelossegrevonas eltorolve....ez igen.
|                                                          RK
|

Megdobbento az a nehany kommentar (Szaszvari Peter, efisher, pfliegem (ME)
, 
     Gabor Barsai) amelyben a szerzok  elitelik Stolmar G. Ilona a 
     magyar nagy csaladok erdekeben kozolt felhivasat. A felhivas a 
     magyarokhoz szol, en ugy ertettem, es nem szerbekhez, vagy 
     hottentottakhoz, a magyar nemzetet fenyegeti a kihalas veszelye 
     (remelem az urak ismerik a hazai demografiai helyzetet). Hat nem 
     termeszetes, hogy a magyarnak kell segiteni a magyart ha bajba kerult? ( E
s  a 
     hottentottaknak pedig a hottentottakon?).   
     Egyebkent feltetelezem pfliegem (ME) osei derek magyar emberek voltak, a 
     tetteik igazoljak. Az hogy a leszarmazotjuk mar kevesbe az - nem 
     csoda, hisz' a lelki es biologiai asszimilacio sajnos vegzi a 
     dolgat... Foleg kulfoldon...
     istvan

Hi!
I'm searching the address and phone number of my uncle, whom I haven't seen for
 years and years.
His name is WETZLER Sandor and I believe he lives in BUDAPEST or its area.

Could anybody help me find this information, please?
Thanks for replying by mail to 

Szervusztok!
(nem tudok magyarul...)
Marc SZEJWACH - Paris/FRANCE

Istvan Szucs > wrote:
>
>Ezt kulonbozo formaban sokszor hallottam, es ket problemam
>van vele. 1) Valakit csak a sajat tetteiert lehet
>felelos.

Ez mellebeszeles, mivel senki sem beszelt a "fiuk" felelossegerol.
Pusztan arrol van szo, hogy sokunknak rossz szajize van attol a
mohosagtol, ahogy ezek a csemetek ravetettek magukat a hatalomra,
annak ellenere, hogy csaladi hatteruk miatt tobb szerenyseget varna el
az ember toluk.  Megha szemely szerint nem is felelosek szuleik viselt
dolgaiert, azert az elegge vilagos, hogy szuleik privilegiumai
juttattak oket abba a helyzeti elonybe, amiben vannak.

> 2) Nem latom hogy barmelyik part vezeteseben ne
>lennenek olyanok akik az elozo rendszerben nem eppen karakan
>ellenzeki viselkedesukrol lettek volna hiresek. A MIEPes
>Csurka peldaul haveri alapon allt Aczel GYorggyel, sot kerek (60?)
>szuletesnapjara o irta az unneplo (es unnepi) beszedet,
>arrol nem is beszelve hogy besugokent a neve is megjelent a
>nyilvantartasokon, amit nem is tagadott. (annyit tagadott
>hogy beszervezese utan besugott volna. Ugy latszik nem
>kenyszeritetek ra (?!), es nemcsak hogy nem zaklattak, de
>ami alatt o a titkos szolgalattal "nem kooperalt" annak
>ellenere hogy be volt szervezve Aczel dijakat kapott.

Tudod mit? Majd, ha a Demszky es tarsai kartotekjai is nyilvanossagra
kerulnek, akkor beszelhetunk errol erdemlegesen.  Vagy ha netan az
alairason kivul, valaki jelentkezik, hogy Csurka artott neki.
Addig az egesz alairas ugyet (ami egyebkent elegge nyomas alatt volt
"elkovetve", ugye?) nem tudom sokkal tobbnek tekinteni, mint a jo
egyetemi jegyekert elkovetett 5-os TudSzoc irasbeliket.  Azokat sem
gondoltuk komolyan, ugyebar?

>3) Ma is allamszocialisztikus intezkedeseket tamogat magas allami
>beleszolassal es tamogatassal. Kulturalis elkepzelesei
>szinte mar a harom T-re emlekeztetnek - jo baratjatol sok
>mindent eltanult.

Ezert irtam mar tobbszor is, hogy Csurka jovokepevel nem tudok
egyeterteni.  Viszont a Gondolatokban leirt diagnozisa, egy-ket
kiteteltol eltekinteve, szerintem talalt.  Ezert is tamadtak ot
a "talaltak".

> 4) Nem latom hogy az SZDSZ atlepte volna
>a parlamentarizmus hatarait.

Az SZDSZ igazi hatalma a kulfoldi kapcsolataikban van, amivel zsarolni
tudtak az Antall kormanyt.  De azert a taxisblokadban vallat szerepuk
sem volt kutya.  Igaz, ezt ugy csinaltak, hogy semmit nem lehet
rajuk bizonyitani, ami a birosagi tesztet is kibirna.  No de a
politikaban ez mar gyakran igy szokott lenni.  Tehat marad a
"circumstantial evidence"-re hagyatkozas.

> 5) Mas partokat emlitve, Boross
>"vendeglatos" multjat, Palffy parttitkari multjat, Chrudinak
>ujsagiroi multjat es tanulmanyait ma mar mindenki ismeri.  

Mi az a bizonyos ujsagiroi mult Chrudinaknal?  Azutan meg miert nem
beszelsz az SZDSZ kulcsemberek multjarol is?  Egyebkent az itteni
(Internetes) SZDSZ-szimpatizansoknal is szinte feltuno a "multnelkuliseg".
Ugy latszik multjuk csak a jobboldaliaknak van.

>Szoval mitol bolsevik a  bolsevik? Mit tett Peto, Magyar
>Balint, Demszky, hogy kierdemelje a bolsevik jelzot?

Gondolom a multjuk es az abbol orokolt taktikajuk.  (Hint: szalami.)

PJ

Udv!

En a chicago-i eloadasukon voltam ott, s csak megismetelni tudnam szavaidat. 
Hanem ami a kerdesedet illeti:

>Egy dolog, amit hianyoltam az volt, hogy nem mutattak be Marta kiseroit,
>akik remekul zeneltek.  Meg a szoszolojuk sem mutatkozott be, de a
>kozonseg igy is elvezte ugyetlen (s 5 ev alatt semmit sem javult), 
>de ertheto angolsaggal mondott elcelodeseit. 
>
>Mivel az utobbi evekben tobb hasonlo egyuttes is megfordult errefele,
>nem vagyok biztos, hogy melyiknel volt az, hogy Csoori Sandor fia is
>az egyuttes tagja volt.  Nem tudja valaki kozuletek esetleg, hogy
>o is a MUZSIKAS tagja-e?  A kinezesere mar nem emlekszem annyi ev utan.

A Muzsikas tagjai:
 ,    ,
-Eri Peter (a kalapos, aki talan a kontran jatszott)
         ,    ,
-ifj. Csoori Sandor
        ,   ,
-Sebestyen Marta
        ,
-Hamar Daniel (a bogos; az elcelodo ficko)
          ,
-Sipos Mihaly (a fenomenalisan gyorsan jatszo hegedumuvesz - amennyiben az  
 valoban hegedu volt a kezeben ;) ))

Sajnos a Deep Forest "Boheme" albumjanak a boritojat nem sikerult Martaval 
alairatnom, mert tul hamar kirohantak az ajton... :(

Sebaj, majd legKOZELebb! :)

_____________________________________________________________________________
LaLa (Imre Olajos, Jr.)    Magyar vagyok.      _/ean /\/\ichel _/arre and
WWW : http://homepage.interaccess.com/~lala         -=\/=- angelis fan  __o
Home:  (USA, Chicago suburbs -> GO BULLS!)        _-\<,_
Work:  (Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs)           (_)/ (_)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Music should be free." /Vangelis/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>$ tacitly encouraged a government lacking the will to
>$ establish a lawful,

>What a bunch of codswallop. What village arsonists or
>pillagers were ever prosecuted for their crimes? None. 
>Ethnic Romanian murderers of Magyars in

$ As I recall from a recent newsfragment in Telegrama, even today one 
$ of the participants in the Giurgiu area `burning' is being harrased
$ by authorities.

Harrassed? That's it? That's all you can come up with. I post the fact of
a gypsy murderer being prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned, and still the
justice-loving Romanian martyrs burn down the local village in
celebration, and all you can come up with is a bit of "harrassment." It
does not change the overwhelming fact that by and large, Gypsies are hated
by Romanians, that Gypsies know they are hated, that "authorities" are
overwhelmingly inclined to turn a blind eye to Romanian criminal arsonists
and looters. 

>1990 Tirgu Mures were never even investigated let alone
>prosecuted, however Gypsies and Magyars were prosecuted, 
>convicted and jailed: and how

$ I know of a Magyar being in jail, he was seen on video tape
$ kicking the daylights out of some other poor slob, but I don't 
$ know of any Gypsies involved in the event, even less being in 
$ jail for it.  

Amnesty International (Index EUR 39/09/90) on October 11, 1990 reported: 

"More serious are the allegations that the crowd involved in the initial
events of 19 March was not a spontaneous gathering but had been organized
by local officials to attack the RMDSz headquarters. Eye-witness accounts
given to Amnesty International allege that Romanians armed with axes,
pitchforks, scythes and other weapons arrived in Tiurgu Mures from
surrounding villages by bus, lorry and cars and were greeted by policemen
who helped them dismount and pointed them in the direction of the RMDSz
headquarters. Other eye-witness accounts describe the apparent
unwillingness of the local police to attempt to control the mob numbering
many hundreds who besieged the building for several hours and severely
injured some of the occupants."

"Thiry-one people were reportedly investigated in connection with the
events of 19 and 20 March of whom two were ethnic Romanians, five ethnic
Hungarians, and 24 of Gypsy origin. In addition to these 31 people, a
number of Gypsies, reportedly between 14 and 18, were convicted in
connection with the events of 19-20 March under the terms of Decree
153/1970: this ostensibly deals with those <who shirk their civic duty to
earn their living by work and who lead a parasitic life>. Eye-witnesses
reported that about 200 Gypsies arrived after 10pm an 20 March and joined
in the severe intercommunal rioting between Romanians and Hungarians which
had begun at 5:15pm that day in the main street in which five people died
and over 250 people were injured. The Gypsies, reportedly shouting <don't
be afraid, Hungarians, here are the Gypsies>, joined the Hungarians and
attacked Romanians."

"Amnesty International is not in a position to assess the culpability of
those charged with participating in the violence which occurred but it
notes that, despite the involvement of ethnic Romanians, Hungarians and
Gypsies in the disturbances, those detained were overwhelmingly and almost
exclusively members of the Gypsy and Hungarian ethnic minorities. It also
notes that special legislation establishing harsh penalties and using
summary procedures, notably Decree 153/1970, was apparently invoked solely
in those cases involving individuals of Gypsy origin, in a manner
suggesting a discriminatory application of the law. Moreover. Gypsies
sentenced under Decree 153/1970 received trials which lacked essential
legal safeguards, and therefore were not consistent with international
standards for fair trials. Due to the accelerated procedure insufficient
time was allowed to prepare a defence, with defence counsel reportedly
permitted to see the case dossier only minutes before the trial began.
Amnesty International is also concerned that Decree 153/1970 does not
allow for an appeal to a higher tribunal, as required by Article 14(5) of
the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights which Romania
ratified in 1974."

>many dead Romanians were found on the streets?  And there
>was the government-sponsored miner's crime spree in Bucharest 
>which saw the indiscriminate street beatings of Gypsies among 
>others,including

$ Of course, we know that most Gypsies were University students at 
$ the time, bent on political action, out in the public squares...    
$ You vapid fool,  

Amnesty International reported on the June 13-15, 1990 events in
Bucharest:

"Many of the workers were miners from the country's western regions. They
openly attacked those they considered to be government opponents with
clubs, pickaxes and other weapons while the security forces stood by; they
also arrested and severely beat meany people. Among the victims of the
attacks were members of Bucharest's Gypsy community who appeared to be
singled out in a way which suggested official coordination, with groups of
miners reportedly targeting Gypsy homes, savagely beating the inhabitants,
and attacking suspected Gypsies in the streets."

"Amnesty International has received numorous reports that there was
official encouragement, direction and control of these mobs..."

In Report GB.250/5/4, 250th session of the Governing Body of the
International Labour Organization, May 20, 1991, Geneva, chaired by Mr
Jules Deschane (Canada), Chief Justice, Superior Court of Quebec. Lecturer
in private international law, University of Montreal. Former expert of the
Sub-commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of
Minorities of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, accompanied
with Mr Francesco Capotorti (Italy), professor of international law at the
Law faculty of the University of Rome (La Sapienza). Former expert on the
Sub-commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of
Minorities of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, and former
judge and advocate general at the Court of Justice of the European
Communities (CJEC). and Mr Budislav Vukas (Yugoslavia), professor of
public international law and Director of the Institute of Comparative Law
at the Law Faculty of the University of Zagreb. Member of Permanent Court
of Arbitration. Member of the ILO Committee of Experts on the Application
of Conventions and Recommendations, reported the following:

Para. 609: "The lack of tolerance currently manifested in the bulk of the
mass communications media, in the form of slander, threats, incitements to
emigrate, incomplete or false information, fosters a climate of
intolerance or even racial hatred with regard to the Roma, and to a lesser
extent, the Magyars. This can only aggravate the social and ethnic
divisions. During the events of 13-15 June 1990 in Bucharest, too many of
the mass media, including the national television, tended to present all
members of the Rom community as deviant, anti-social beings inclined to
crime and black market activities on the sole basis of their ethnic
origins and physical appearance. This attitude excourages expressions of
discrimination or racism."

Para. 439: "Decree No. 153/1970, subsequently modified by Decree No.
41/1980, which provides for penalties in thre case of certain offenceas
against the rules on communal social life and public law and order
(persons leading a parasitic or anarchic form of life), has not been
repealed or modified. This Decree was used on two occasions against
members of the Rom minority, following the inter-ethnic conflicts in
Tirgu-Mures in March 1990 and the events in Bucharest in June 1990. During
an interview at the Ministry of labour, it was stated that this Decree had
been maintained by accident..."
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ;-)))


>Of course that is the way it is. It's what makes Romania a
>glorious example of fraudulent justice and fraudulent democracy 
>for the world.

$ That of course is a matter of opinion. Yours. Which does not
$ seem to get a lot of consideration here on scr, or anywhere else.

Nor do your opinions rate any reply from anyone on scr or elsewhere. Big
point Mark. That's all you come up with for a reply? How weak.

$ There are no Gypsy children. They are called `PURANDEI' !
$ And I will tell an episode of the consideration they receive 
$ from their `loving' folk.
$
$ In the same Giurgiu district, where a `burning' occurred,
$ the Gypsies were stealing electricity.

There a considerable number of Canadians, of assorted ethnic
configurations who do the same, also stealing cable tv, pirating software,
etc etc etc. Ho hum.

$ The power company came to remedy the situation, but the
$ Gypsies being Gypsies put up a big fuss and would not let them. 

In some cases, the Canadians of assorted ethnic configurations, made a big
fuss in their own theivery. Ho hum.

$ The police came, and were in turn assaulted by an infuriated 
$ Gypsy mother. 

There have been instances of Canadian mothers assaulting police. <yawn>

$ It would be a rather bland story except for the 
$ manner of the assault, unfortunately not unprecedented.  
$ The Gypsy woman, grabbed one of her `purandei' by the feet, 
$ one of manageable weight, and started whacking at the cops, 
$ using the upper extremity of the `purandeu' as a mallet !

The beautiful Karla Homulka (Canadian) stole some powerful animal
anaesthetic from the animal clinic where she worked, and on Christmas eve,
applied it to her 14 year old sister in the basement recreation room while
the parents were upstairs. She undressed her sister, stuck her finger up
her sister's cunt while being video-taped, in spite of the fact that a
tampon string was hanging out. She then video taped her boyfriend fucking
her little sister, shoving his cock down her throat. The girl vomited and
drowned. They cleaned up their deeds, police came, and the death was
chalked up as one of misadventure.

Sex involving sisters would a rather bland story except for manner of
Karla's assault. So what does this prove? 

$ Police chief came, tried to reason with the elders.  He is
$ asking them, this illegal power tap of yours, is kind of
$ half ass, why won't you pay for a legal one. Are you not
$ worried that some of your children could get electrocuted ?
$ He must not have seen the `purandeu' assault, for the answer
$ he got was, fuck the children we can always make more !

And they live up to their word; they do make more. <yawn>.


-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Hi!

I will spending 3 months in Budapest this summer, and I was wondering if 
anyone who reads this newsgroup could recommend any books or literature about 
Hungary that could be of help to me....

I'm also open to any suggestions about where I should go in terms of 
sightseeing and restaurants and where I shouldn't go.

Thank you very much!

-Adela

     \\|//
     |o o|
__oOOo(_)oOOo__
Adela Rosa Ramos
Duke University

In article >, Ivan Marinov <int0108> wrote:
>Hat en szemelyesen arra sem emlekszem, hogy 1 es 2 eves koromban mi volt 
>velem, sot 3 eves korombol is csak egesz zavaros emlekeim vannak. Ennek 
>alapjan On szerint bizonyara azt kellene hirdetnem, hogy legyen meg 
>minden szulonek az az emberi joga, hogy gyermeket annak 2 eves koraig 
>meggyilkoltassa... Olvastam egy tudomanyos fantasztikus novellat (azt 
>hiszem, hogy R. Sheckleytol, de a cimet mar elfeljtettem), melyben a 
>torveny csak azt ismeri el embrnek, akinek lelke van, a lelek pedig e 
>torveny szerint 12 eves korban kerul emberbe. Igy ebben a kitalalt 
>jovobeli tarsadlaomban minden szulo szabadon eldontheti, hogy abortalja-e 
>gyereket, felteve ha az meg nem toltotte be a 12. evet. Ugye vicces? Hat 
>ugyanolyan vicces az, amikor "tudomanyos" modszerekkel megallapitjak, 
>hogy a magzat x idopontig nem-ember, attol kezdve meg az. Nem lenne 
>egyszerubb beismerni, hogy a magzat kezdettol fogva ember, s mint 
>embernek joga van emberi jogokra?
>
>Ivan
>
Termeszetesen Onnek igaza van. De mi a kezdet? Miert pont a megtermekenyules?
Miert nem lehet elfogadni kezdetnek a szuletest. Gyanitom hogy kulonfele 
vallasi alapmuvek is igy definialjak a dolgot.

On azt mondja a Tajgetosz rossz. En nem merem azt mondani, hogy jo, mert engem 
itt ugy elkuldenenek, hogy izzana az internet.

De tekintsuk a dolgokat egy bizonyos tavolsagbol (ami nekem maskulonben is 
kedvencem). Eloszor is el kell dontenunk valamit. Elfogadunk-e vallasos 
dogmakat, vagy a vilag egeszet (benne magunkat is) vizsgalodasunk targyakent 
kezeljuk es szabadon gondolkodunk felole.
Az elso esetben sajnos nem vitazhatunk tovabb, minden tiszteletem, de vege.
Az utobbi esetben eloszor meg kell szabadulnunk eloiteleteinktol azaz el kell 
vetnunk minden olyan evidenciat amit keszen kaptunk masoktol.

Tegyuk fel, hogy ezen az agon haladunk tovabb. Csupan olyan egyszeru 
kerdesekre kell most valaszt talalnunk, hogy mi jo, mi rossz, mi az ertek, 
stb. (Mivel senki nem mondja azt nekunk meg)
Ertek-e az elet? Mint az masik mai valaszomban irtam, nekem legalabbis a 
sajatom nem! Egeszen biztos vagyok ugyanis benne, hogy amennyiben valaki az 
eletemet elvenne, en azon nem szomorkodnek, egyszeruen mivel NEM LENNEK.
Sosem ertettem azokat az embereket akik sajat eletukert aggodnak.

Ertek-e a mas elete. Termeszetesen! Ha ok nem lennenek mi unatkoznank, ha mar 
ismertuk oket hianyoznanak. Persze ilyet nem szabad mondani. A tarsadalaom 
alapkove az elet biztonsaga. Miert? Mert olyan tarsadalmat szeretnenk ami 
kenyelmes. Nem kell kuzdeni, nincs kivalasztodas, szeretnenk kikapcsolni 
mindent ami "termeszetesen" kenyelmetlen az eletunkben. Utaljuk a 
meglepeteseket es mindent meg is teszunk ellenuk.

Jo ez? Attol fugg honnan nezzuk. Afrikaban meghalnak az emberek. Ez 
"termeszetes" mivel az eletter nem latszik elegnek termeszetes modon eltartani 
annyi embert, Mi itt Europaban tuljartunk a Termeszet eszen. Annyit preselunk 
ki mestersegesen belole, hogy tizszer-szazszor annyian is megelunk mint 
termeszetes volna. 
Nekunk jol megy, volt idonk "humanusnak" lenni es elkezdtunk gyogyszereket 
osztani Afrikaban. Mi tortent. Az emberek most nem csecsemokent halnak meg, 
hanem nagyobb korukban hosszu szenvedes utan ehenhalnak. Sokkal jobb ez igy, 
kepesek "elvezni" a dolgot, nem?
De mi humanusak voltunk, nincs pardon. 

Vagy a doktorok, ezek a tarsadalmilag felszentelt cinikus vagy naiv hoherok.
Mit tesz az orvostudomany? Semmi mast mint megprobalja megallitani a 
termeszetes kivalasztodast, ami a termeszet legfontosabb tartopillere.
 
Eredmeny? Ma mar elhet valaki hosszu eletet halalos betegen, sot szaporodhat 
es sok-sok embernek adhat hasonlo eletet.
Mikozben testunk atlagos minosege egyre romlik es lassan elni sem vagyunk 
kepesek mesterseges eszkozok nelkul.
Ha az emberiseget fenyegeto veszelyek kozott keresgelunk, az orvosok hamarabb 
jonnek az atombombanal. De nem ok tehetnek rola. Ok csak beleilleszkednek egy 
tarsadalmi kepbe ami elvarja az individum eletenek kenyelmesiteset.
Az individualizmus mai foka hosszabb tavon biztos ongyilkossag.

A kerdesek tehat nem egyszeruek, es megvalaszolasukkor ovatosnak kell lennunk.
Az is lehet, neha nem kapunk valaszt. Vannak persze mar kesz valaszok. 
harsogjak nekunk partok, es le vannak irva a Bibliaban.
De mi van ha nem hiszunk a kesz valaszokban, es ennek nem onnon makcssagunk az 
oka, hanem egyszeruen alkatilag keptelenek vagyun?

A korlatlanul szabad gondolkodas a legveszelyesebb dolog amivel megverhet 
bennunket a sors. Igazabol megertem a hatalmas gyuloletet a "liberalisokkal" 
szemben. A biztos falak kozott elo ember idegessege ez, amikor kinez az 
ablakon es meglat a sikon egy maganyosan bolyongo embert. Kizokken, 
felidegesedik, harag gerjed benne.


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

In article >, Ivan Marinov <int0108> wrote:
 (Peter Szaszvari) wrote:
>
>>Lesz tehat egy gyerek, akinek csak baja lesz az elete nagy reszeben, a 
>>tetejeben meg az is erzi, hogy o aztan nem kellett senkinek.
>
>Udv, most eppen Budapestrol!
>Kovetelem, hogy irtsuk ki a budapesti hajlektalanokat, csak jobb lesz 
>nekik, most ugyis csak szenvednek szegenyek... Tamogatni fogsz egy ilyen 
>javaslatot?
>
Termeszetesen, de kerlek kezdd velem. En ugyanis hajlektalan vagyok Budapesten 
ezert is dontottem ugy masfel ev kollegiumi bujkalas utan, hogy Z-be jovok 
dolgozni.

Velemenyem: Ha engem barki meg kivan olni holnap, nekem semmi kifogasom nincs 
ellene csak ne szoljon elore es ne nagyon fajjon.
Az mar mas kerdes, hogy a feleseggemmel lehet utana egy kis elszamolnivaloja, 
mert o maniasan igenyt tart ram.
Nekem viszont nem lesz az se jo se rossz. (Neha nem viccelek, arra mi a jel?)


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

It appears that the Sheikh is being treated as any other prisoner in his
situation.

He is in solitary confinement because he would immediately be killed if
allowed into the general prison population. (Look at what happened to
Jeffery Dahlmer just a few weeks after he got out of protective custody).

The guards look up the anus of the Sheikh every time he reeives a visitor,
beause the guards in every prison always do that.

Sol Wachter, Chief Justice of the New York of Appeals, complained of being
treated in exactly the same way when he went to federal prison.

There seems to be nothing unusual in the way that the sheikh is being
treated.

On Sat, 30 Mar 1996, Wally Keeler wrote:

> Amnesty International reported on the June 13-15, 1990 events in
> Bucharest:

I pay dues to Amnesty International as well. I also think they are better
at, and should confine themselves to reporting on the rights of individuals.

Reporting on a riot, and reaching conclusion on that could only be termed
as hearsay is neither profeesional nor condusive to help Amnesty 
International reach and further it's goals.

The plights of individuals, such as Mr. Cseresnesy (sorry for the 
misspeling), or the Ilascu case in Moldova and even those Gypsies that
may have been convicted under questionable circumstances have my full
sympathy and backing through entities such as AI.
I do not think it is the place of AI to comment & attempt to make policy
regarding minority relations. 

> The beautiful Karla Homulka (Canadian) stole some powerful animal > Sex
>involving sisters would a rather bland story except for manner of >

That has to do with North American savagery. In Romania we are not calous
enough yet to be jaded about the sort of behavior I described in the 
'purandeu assault' !

Anyway Oali, alleged 'gypsie persecutions' seem to be your hobby. Good
for you and the province of Ontario. Keeps you from robbing local banks
or forment some bolshevic subversions !

m. cristian

I have obtaineddistribution rights for the video of the award-winning 
movie LATCHO DROM, directed by Tony Gatlif (France, 1994). This great
film travels from India to Spain showing the music and dance traditions 
of the Rom (Gypsy) people. It's 103-minutes of non-stop music and dance 
with no dialogues.Shot in India, Egypt, Turkey, Romania, Hungary (a 
great scene with the Rostas family filmed in village of Nyirvasvari), 
Slovakia, France and Spain.  Superb cinematography. Video is VHS format 
and North American standard (NTSC). Original uncut version from France. 
French subtitles for some of the song lyrics. English text sheet is 
supplied.
Cost is $26.95 US or $30.95 CDN includes shipping !

Make checks payable to: (sorry, no credit card orders)
YVES MOREAU
P.O. Box 158, St-Lambert, QC, CANADA J4P 3N8
Tel: (514) 659-9271  Fax: (514) 659-9377

In article >,  says...
>
>
>                      [][][]
>
>The Deputy-Mayor of Nazareth (Israel) ......
>                     [][][]
>
>"Nicolae Ceausescu received his frequent visitor, Rabbi Arthur Schneier,....
>
>                          [][][]
>
>Ceausescu received the Mayor of Bethlehem, Elias Freijin in Bucharest,
>
>
>
>Wally Keeler 

Excellent selection Wally! Your Jewish cuisine is exquisite! I can see it in 
DisneyWorld, next to Vienna's Schnitzel, valses and Ceausescu's blood dressed 
as Dracula!

You forgot to mention that every citizen of Romania, with no exception, licked 
the boots of the Communists. No one had really a choice, and this very hard to 
explain in Kingston and Thunder Bay.

Moses Rosen was one of the most intelligent person I even meet, although he was
 
an opportunist. So were Lenin (he worked for the german Secret service, in 
full state of war between Russia and Germany). You tell me who won?

The German spies or Lenin?

Miha

PS: Moses Rosen was a lawyer too. When he was selected, I never saw one 
hassidic Jew in the whole Bucharest (the 50's). Rosen  dressed and looked as 
everyone else. His nearest type is the Polish Pope, elected from communist 
Poland. He started looking as a Pope only after election in Rome. His wife was 
divorcee,  who hired Rosen as her divorce attorney... Their marriage created a 
scandal, a "cohen" ( A Rabbi) can marrry only a virgin..., in the hassidic 
traditional Rabanut.

About stealing in a shop, so did the wife Yevtushenko, the Russian poet, in 
NYC. Almost any Romanian on this list took a train without buying a ticket once
 
in his life... I left Romania with ZERO dollars, therefore the tentation is 
there.

*Read only if you are interested in saving in international calls* 

  Do you use a local telecom company to call overseas friends,
relatives or business associates?
               If you do, you may be paying too much!!


U.S. residents enjoy some of the lowest international calling rates in
the world! Now you can take
advantage of U.S. low international calling rates from anywhere in the
world by using callback. 
  
You can save up to 70% on international voice, cellular, data and fax
needs.  Sign up with our U.S. carrier now!  Our rates are especially
competitive for Asia, Pacific, Middle East and Europe.
No GST or VAT!

Rates (in US$ per minute) for  selected countries.  

Australia-$0.28     Canada-$0.19       France-$0.35     Germany-$0.34
Hongkong-$0.43   Hungary-$0.93    India-$0.87         Iran-$1.11
Israel-$0.90         Japan-$0.38     Netherlands-$0.39
Singapore-$0.37        S. Korea-$0.75      Taiwan-$0.51
UK-$0.22            USA-$0.10 

*To get billing rate, add the rate for the country where the call
originates, and the rate for the destination country.  For example, a
call from Hungary to USA is billed at U.S.$1.03 per minute.


We welcome the opportunity to serve you and hope to hear from you very
soon.   Regards.


Ivan Chew
Fax:  65-5658480      Email:  

From:  (Rad Edelstein)
Subject: Re: Ce vrea sa zica in realitate Rosca.
Date: Sun Mar 24 21:33:37 1996
|Jews have contributed more (per individual) than Romanians to the
|economic prosperity of Romania. They contributed to Romanian culture and
|prestige (while the reverse did not happen). What more proof you want
|than the fact that things are going worse now for Romania than they were
|when Jews were living and working there in great numbers?

The following are a few tidbits of information that tends to discredit the
ethnic boast of Mr Rad Edelstein above:

                      [][][]

The Deputy-Mayor of Nazareth (Israel) sent official congratulations to
Ceausescu in celebration of its Natiional Day, August 23/88
  -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #34, Aug 28/88.

[I don't recall any municipal official in Canada ever bothering to extend
such a wish to such an odious dictator. What was the interest of the
Deputy-Mayor of Nazareth in doing so?]

                     [][][]

"Nicolae Ceausescu received his frequent visitor, Rabbi Arthur Schneier,
chair of the NY-based Appeal to Conscience Foundation, for talks on
'problems related to co-operation between Romania and the USA.' Romania's
Deputy Prime Minister, Stefan Andrei, met with Schneier seperately for
similar talks.
  -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #34, Aug 28/88

[Note the "...frequent visitor..." was working out details on how to keep
Ceausescu's dictatorshit in the list of Most Favoured Nations. Yech. The
real reason, of course, was to keep the export trade in Jews at a high
level, keep the $$$$$ rolling into Ceausescu's Avenue for Socialist
Victory project, and turn a blind eye to the sufferings of other Romanian
ethnicities.]

                          [][][]

Ceausescu received the Mayor of Bethlehem, Elias Freijin in Bucharest,
December 6, 1988.
  -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #49, Dec 9/88.

[Once again, another municipal official oils the palm of Europe's
ludicrous dictator of the century.]

                        [][][]

Ceausescu received the Secretary-General of the Israeli Communist Party,
Meir Vilner on July 11, 1988.
  -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #29, July 22/88

[What is it? Ceausescu wears a come-thither-unto-me cologne? What is the
purpose of all these visits? $$$$$$$$$?????  For whom? Who benefits? The
Romanian nation? ??????]

                         [][][]

Minister of Trade and Industry, Ariel Sharon, was received by Stefan
Andrei and others on July 15/88. Three days later, July 18, Sharon met
with Ceausescu to convet a message from Shamir.
  -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #22, July 22/88

[Canada was deeply involved in playing footsie with this cruel dictator
for its sale of CANDU nuclear reactors, but in spite of this, the number
of visits to this Genius of the Carpathians was kept to the ultimate
minimum.]

                         [][][]

Ceausescu met with Eliazor Granat, secretary-General of Israel's United
Worker's Party, May 24/88

[ad nauseum]

                           [][][]

"July 1982, Rabbi Arthur Schneier praised Ceausescu's foreign policy,
ignoring internal persecution and oppression. Former US Ambassador to
Romania, David Funderburke advised Schneier that by showing concern for
all people and groups suffering in Romania would afford greater
credibility to his human rights concerns."
  -- p.185, Pinstripes & Reds, 1987, David Funderburke.

[According to Schneier's activities, in lining the pockets of Ceausescu,
only the Jews of Romania were worthy of human rights, not the increasing
oppression of other ethnicities in Romania. This in the face of Schneier's
scold that it was morally bankrupt that other people turned a blind eye to
the sufferings of the Jews during the holocaust. His comment was right.
His own personal behaviour in light of that sort of comment waas not only
hypocritical, it swas reprehensible.]

                         [][][]

"Dec, 1982, Rabbi Schneier again visited Romania and returned reporting
that Ceausescu wanted him to provide a face-saving compromise on the
education tax measure he had imposed on emigrants, notably ethnic
Germans."
-- p.185, Pinstripes & Reds, 1987, David Funderburke.

[Schneier was successful. Most Favoured Nation status was retained, the
ethnic Germans got stiffed, and Romanian Jews, as a group, were less
oppressed than the rest of the Romanian population.]

                           [][][]

November 1983, Jack Spitzer, former president of B'nai B'rith ("a real
arrogant ass" in the words of a colleague). He showed no interest in the
plight of the Romanians, but appeared to flaunt his personal access to
Ceausescu.
  -- p.185, Pinstripes & Reds, 1987, David Funderburke.

[Where in the world existed a Jew who dared to scorn this cruel
dictactor?]

                                [][][]

April 1978, While Ceausescu was on a US visit, Milton Rosenthal, US Chair
of the US-Romanian Economic council, held a gala reception at New York's
Waldorf Astoria. Mrs Freida Rosenthal tool Elena Ceausescu to visit the
Metropolitan Museum.
  -- Pinstripes & Reds, 1987, David Funderburke.

[Here's another one contributing to the economic strength of Romania]

                            [][][]

"Toward the mid-1970's, the wife of Romania's chief rabbi, Moses Rosen,
had been arrested in London for shoplifting in a department store. She
was, in fact, a kleptomaniac. Ceausescu immediately ordered that rabbi
Rosen be used against Valerian Trifa (Archbishop of the Romanian Orthodox
Episcopate of America, whom Ceausescu attempted to tar as an Iron Guardist
and nazi in order that he be deported from the US) in exchange for help in
solving his wife's problem and keeping the incident a secret. The then-
Chief of the D.I.E., Nicolae Doicaru, was personally charged by Ceausescu
with manipulating Rosen. According to Doicaru, Rosen agreed to co-operate
and was immediately sent to the United States to create a public climate
against Trifa, and later was repeatedly used to help Bucharest in other
influence operations in the West.
  -- p.289-290, Red Horizons, 1987, Ion Mihai Pacepa

[Quite frankly I have no way of assessing the veracity of this account.
Perhaps others on SCR have some knowledge. At any rate, Rosen was quite
effective at influence peddling.]

                          [][][]

Ana Pauker, in fact, was ambivalent about her background: she combined
atheism and an unshakable faith in Stalin with considerable sympathy for
Israel and for the Romanian chief rabbi, Moses Rosen; her brother,
Solomon, a regular visitor to Bucharest, lived in Israel.
  -- p.123, Kiss the Hand You Cannot Bite, 1991, Edward Behr

[And so the world turns]

                          [][][]

"JEWS IN ROMANIA ARE REPORTED TO BE SAFE" "...like all religious agencies,
the Federation of Romanian Jewish Communities, was an arm of the Ceausescu
government." Moses Rosen also had a seat in Parliament. "Jews who remained
in Romania were sometimes seen by others as privileged since they were the
beneficiaries of American Jewish relief agencies that shipped food,
clothing and fuel subsidies." Arthur Schneier, Park East Synagogue.
  -- Dec 28/89, New York Times

[Interestingly and sadly, the same Ceausescu regime which permitted these
privileges for the Jews, forbade the entrance of any humanitarian
assistance from Hungarian relief agencies.]

                            [][][]

On December 8, [1989] Laszlo [Tokes] addressed a moving letter to Tamas
Raj, a prominent rabbi in Hungary. He likened the situation of the
Hungarians in Romania to that of the Jews -- a -persecuted nation...
Laszlo had always maintained close relations with Erno Neumann, the local
rabbi in Timisoara and the Jewish congregation. However he failed in his
attempts to gain support from the national Jewish leadership in Romania
and especially Chief Rabbi, Mosen Rosen. Laszlo called in Raj to lend his
support. Laszlo's letter was smuggled out of Romania and reached Raj in
Budapest. He replied through the pages of the national newspaper, Magyar
Nemzet, offering comfort to Laszlo through the words of Isiah: 'Watchman,
what is left of the night?' The watchman replies, 'Morning is coming...'
Raj apologized for the hostility shown by his Romanian colleague, the
Chief Rabbi, Moses Rosen. 'The truth is that persecution often debases the
persecutor, too.' he wrote."
  -- p.201, In The Eye of the Storm, 1991, Felix Corley & John Eibner

[How easy to betray others. How morally bankrupt Rosen was]

                         [][][]

"Ceausescu allowed Romania's Jews to emigrate, in return for which Israel
paid the Romanians handsomely, in dollars or kind, for each successful
emigrant. And the pro-Israeli lobby in the States also put pressure on the
State Department to continue to grant Most Favoured Nations Status to
Romania."
  -- p.115, The Life & Evil Times of Nicolae Ceausescu, 1991, John Sweeney

[Very common knowledge. The sustenance given to Ceausescu by this means
directly contributed to the malnourishment and impoverishment of the
Romanian nation]

                          [][][]

"In Rosen's book, The Paper Bridge; Essays in Judaism (Bucharest, 1973),
he includes the following address he made to Ceausescu at a meeting on 29
Feb 1968: 'Permit me, respected Mr President, to add to this wonderful
nosegay of homage the flower of the unanimous respect earned by Romania
throughout the world thanks to its wise and large, humanistic foreign
policy, which enjoys your direct and continuous guidance."
-- p.115, The Life & Evil Times of Nicolae Ceausescu, 1991, John Sweeney

[Perhaps this inspired Tudor to start his own career. <\vomit>]

                            [][][]

"...it should be noted that the administration of the Romanian Orthodox
Church, as well as Rabbi Rosen, leader of the Jews in Romania, were
cynical servants of the Ceausescu regime, responsible for terror, not
faith. The leaders of these churches were criminals, who not only kept
silent when people were killed for their beliefs but actively denounced
and betrayed activist believers."
  -- p.209, The Hole In The Flag, 1991, Andrei Codrescu

[Sadly, the Leadershit of the World Jewish Congress, tainted their
otherwise honourable name, by heaping praise on Rosen, and having him
stand beside them on the stage at various important events. Eva Blenesi,
Minority Affairs Coordinator of FIDESZ (Fiatal Demokratak Szovetsege --
Party of Young Democrats, Hungary) in an interview I conducted with her in
August 1991, cited cases of ethnic Hungarians in Romania who were also
Jews being forbidden to speak Hungarian -- some were members of the
synagogue's choir -- they were forbidden to speak Hungarian at any time --
the order forbidding this was given by Rosen. Although there was no law in
Romania forbidding Hungarian to be spoken in unofficial circles, Rosen
nevertheless brought pressure to bear to fulfill Ceausescu's implicit
policy of assimilation.]

                     [][][]

"This minority (Jews) is in the process of disappearing owing to the
continuing emigration since the beginning of the 1960's. Between 1944 and
1952, more than 160,000 Jews left Romania. The emigratory movement slowed
down between 1952 and 1958 without ever stopping altogether, but resumed
in 1958. In 1978, the Jewish community of Romanian origin in Israel
amounted to 265,000 persons who had immigrated since 1944. The immigration
of members of the Jewish minority became a feature of the government's
economic policy after the end of the 1960's. In 1980, the extension to
Romania of the most-favoured-nation clause by the united States followed
an easing of the Romanian Government's position regarding the emigration
of the Jewish minority. Unlike the case of the German minority, the
commission has not been informed of complaints about loss of employment
following upon requests for definitive emigration by members of the Jewish
community. According to the Grand Rabbi of Romania, the average age of the
Jewish population in Romania is thought to be over 60. At the same time, a
certain number of decisions were taken to improve certain aspects of the
life of this minority: the synagogue of Piatra Neamt was restored,
beginning in 1978; an 11th kosher restaurant was opened at
Brasov/Kronstadt (the other ten being at Bucharest); and places of worship
and burial wwere developed for purposes of tourism, etc"
  -- paragraphs 173/4, International Labour Office, Report on Romania's
     Observance of the Discrimination (Employment and Occupation)
     Convention 1958 (No.111) May 20, 1991

[It is quite a considerable insult when Rad Edelstein claims that the
265,000 persons of Romanian origin now living in Israel, have not made any
economic contribution to Israel, whereas, Israel made an economic
contribution to Romanians by lining Ceausescu's pockets with Avenues for
Socialist Victory and removing hundreds of thousands of good minds that
would otherwise have contributed to Romania's well-being.

I think Rad should reflect on his rash claim, which, whether he admits it
or not, is tainted with some ethnic chauvinism.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Istvan Szucs wrote:
> 
> Maybe some of the friendlyness comes from the revolution of
> 1848 when Hungary received significant support from Poland
> and Polish people.  
                      [ ... ]

My first Australian friend, Lois Navy, is Hungarian. This
personal remark demonstrates how history influences our
personal lives. :=)

How are you going Lois, anyway?

---------------,
Andrew P. Paplinski

On Sat, 30 Mar 1996, Wally Keeler wrote:

> The Deputy-Mayor of Nazareth (Israel) sent official congratulations to
> Ceausescu in celebration of its Natiional Day, August 23/88
>   -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #34, Aug 28/88.
> "Nicolae Ceausescu received his frequent visitor, Rabbi Arthur Schneier,
> Ceausescu received the Mayor of Bethlehem, Elias Freijin in Bucharest,
> December 6, 1988.
>   -- Radio Free Europe Weekly Record of Events, Vol 13, #49, Dec 9/88.

>.... & other brown stuff by the master regurgitator...

Just proves that politics are dirty.  He was also entertained and fussed
over by such as the Queen of England and countless other that were in the
business of politics ! 

m. cristian

Az alabbi megjegyzesemre

>>... aki ismeri a kormany tavaly marc. 12-en elinditott,
>>tragikus szocialpolitikai kovetkezmenyekkel jaro intezkezeseit, az elobb
>>elgondolkodik a tavlati hatasokon, es utana nem kerdez Zurichbol ilyeneket.

 (Peter Szaszvari) a kovetkezoket valaszolta:

>... Mert ugye az mar csak trivialis, hogy a kormany 
>donti el, hogy nevelek-e gyereket vagy sem. Es majd a kormany fog ra penzt is 
>adni, mert ha nem hat abortusz! 
>Meg aztan az orszag felviragoztatasanak egyetlen udvos modja az abortusz 
>szigoru tiltasa volna.
>(A szabad abortuszpolitika az egy emberoles am, es, es ez a kormany egy, egy 
>tomeggyilkos, uuuugybizony!)

Velemenyem szerint a polgar donti el, hogy nevel-e gyereket vagy sem, de
ennek eldontesenel az anyagi hatter nem mellekes. 
 
>Ne is emlitsuk, hogy nyomorba is termeszetesen ez a kormany taszitotta a 
>nepet. De akkor baj van, mert ezzel azt is kell mondanunk, hogy ez a szegeny 
>nep hulye is, ugyanis teljesen szabadon, demokratikus keretek kozott 
>valasztotta maganak ezt a nepirto kormanyt, meghozza nagy tobseggel.
>(Pedig volt mar neki egy olyan jo, nemzeti.)

Nem gondoltam volna, Peter, hogy eljon az a pillanat, amikor valamiben
teljesen azonos velemenyen vagyunk. :-)
>Szoval meg sok ilyet! Joooo ez!
Joooooo!

>Innen Z.-bol nem latszik tisztan milyen *nem* katasztrofalis szocialpolitikai 
>kovetkezmenyekkel jaro intezkedeseket lehetne hozni egy orszagban ahol csak 
>adossag van, nincs viszont (mukodo) gazdasag. (Nem kis reszben megint csak a 
>magas nemzeti tartalommal biro elozo kormany mukodese nyoman)

Errol a Parlament ejt nappalla teve vitazott (1995. majus 17-18-an de az
elotte es utana valo ulesnapokon is), az ellenzek kemenyen ervelt es
ellenjavaslatokkal elt. Ha levelemben ideznek a vita jegyzokonyvebol,
alighanem mindenfele sorlimitet tullepnek, ezert kerlek, Peter, tanulmanyozd
pl. az alabbi felszolalast, vagy az elotte-utana elhangzottakat:
http://www.mkogy.hu/naplo/084/0840286.htm

>Vagy miert volt az, hogy nyugaton mindenki annak a Bokros Lajosnak drukkolt, 
>aki otthon elso szamu kozellensegnek szamitott nem tul nepszeru intezkedesei 
>nyoman.
Ez azert volt, mert mas kaszajaval sokkal kellemesebb a csalant irtani.

>Egyebkent is, Z.-ben mindig kod van, es semmi sem latszik tisztan...
Remelem, az ajanlott irodalom behato tanulmanyozasa utan Z.-ben is feljebb
szall a kod.

Koszont:
Gyuri

 wrote:
> 
> Teruletrendezest!
> 
> FELHIVAS Kozep-Europa Bekes Teruletrendezesere
> A Vilag Osszes Magyar Szervezetehez es Egyhazahoz!
> Javslom, hogy a teruletrendezesbe vonjuk be a Siliconvalleybe mukodo harcos, 
nemzeti erzelmu 
hazafiakat. Ezt ugy kepzelem el, hogy keruljonek azok hatalomra Magyarorszagon,
 akit Ok akarnak. 
Csinaljanak azt, amit Ok akarnak. 
Ennek azonban egy feltetele van, hogy (lak)helyet es egzisztenciat kell csereln
iuk egy hasonlo 
koru, mai Magyarorszagon elo allampolgarral csaladostul. Szivesen felajalkozok 
cserepartnernek: 
"32 eves feher ferfi ket diplomaval es ket gyerekkel" jeligere varom a bekes te
ruletrendezesi 
partnerek jelentkezeset. Termeszetesen az ingosagok is tulajdonost cserelnek, i
gy fajo szivvel 
megvalok a Trabantomtol... Igerem, hogy nagyon jo otleteket fogok kuldozgetni a
z ocean masik 
partjarol!
Udvozlettel

		Toni