Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 869
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-12-07
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: To everybody (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
5 News - KOSOVO DAILY REPORT - 5 December 1996 (mind)  273 sor     (cikkei)
6 HELP ORGANIZE a DEMONSTRATION in Belgrade Serbia (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
7 News - Christian Science Monitor on Radio Station B-92 (mind)  140 sor     (cikkei)
8 poetry title (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: To everybody (mind)  71 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Hungarian beer (was: MALEV) (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Hungarian long step (was Hungarian beer) (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: To everybody (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: To everybody (mind)  73 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Nadia Comaneci / Kemenes Ilona (mind)  48 sor     (cikkei)
21 Hungary will now every secret (mind)  52 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: The English Patient (mind)  73 sor     (cikkei)
23 To Canadians only (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: To everybody (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: To Canadians only (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: To everybody (mind)  60 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: Communist or not? (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Lajos MONOKI
> writes:

>Sorry Peter, but I think you are wrong. Rotate means: "1.to turn around
or
>cause turn around a center point or axis, revolve 2. to go or cause to go
in
>a regular and recurring succession of changes; take, or cause to take,
>turns" (source: Webster's New World Dictionary, 3rd College Edition)
>When taking off, the AOA is increased (angel of attack), it's surely not
>"rotating"  - it is not a full revolution, not a full turn around(1) nor
a
>regular, recurring succession of changes (2). It is rather "nodding".
>But jet engines "rotate" at very high speed (about a few thousand RPM),
>turning aruond an axis (1) and (2).
>If the engines do not rotate, it is called a crash-landing.
>
>Lajos

I believe the terminology in use among the guys who fly these monsters is
"spooling" the engines. Lajos' intuition serves him particularly well on
the last point in his post.
Sam Stowe

"Got a devil's haircut
in my mind..."
-- Beck
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, "Eva S.
Balogh" > writes:

>Subject:       Re: To everybody
>From:  "Eva S. Balogh" >
>Date:  Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:09:30 -0500
>
>At 02:20 PM 11/30/96 -0500, Joe Szalai wrote to Sam Stowe:
>
>>"My side" was in the streets of Budapest in '56, in
>>Prague in '68, in Kent State University in '70, in Beijing in '89, and
in
>>Belgrade today.  Meanwhile, "your side" is watching football on TV.
>
>        Wow! I haven't realized for the longest time that Joe and I are
on
>the same side! How silly of me.
>
>        Eva Balogh
>
>

Somehow Joe's more flamboyent soundings-off never seem to make their way
intact to my server. I think he posted it during the two- or three-day
period when the AOL server had run through its lithium prescription and
the pharmacy hadn't delivered more. Nevertheless, I await Joe's
explanation of how he can play the preening leftist when a sizable chunk
of the anti-Slobbo crowd in Beograd with which he claims solidarity are
monarchists, rabid nationalists and worse. "With the lights out, it's less
dangerous..."
Sam Stowe

"Got a devil's haircut
in my mind..."
-- Beck
+ - Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Durant At 04:32 PM 06/12/96 +0000, you wrote:
>>Is this clapping on landing a new custom?
>I've never experienced it, I haven't been on a
>MALEV light for about 4 years.
>I've heard from a collegue, that bulgarian
>flights have this feature, in fact he said, standing ovation.


First of all, I think that it is highly stretching it; relating the custom
to only Malev and/or Hungarian I mean.  Standing ovation?  Must have been
one hell of a landing!  Gives me the picture of three of four engines out of
commission?

Of the many, many, X many flights, that I have taken to and by just about
you name it; the clapping custom has been evident in: european flights,
especially originating/ending in eastern/central Europe - Oriental flights -
any other flights when the above nationalities are in any significant
numbers.  (On the other hand, I I actually remember being on a flight, on
which only three people clapped).

I once took the time to ask a good pilot friend to enlighten me of the
origin of this custom. His reply was simple, but numerous; "it is the way in
which certain nationalities present on  the flight express their thanks for
a) smooth landing,  b) priming their emotions for the meeting of clans upon
arrival, c) just appreciative kind people, who by clapping, acknowledge the
fact that there is someone out in front, who has actually been working hard
at making them feel comfortable d) they are smashed to the high heavens, and
follow the lead of the first clap".  In fact, he never did answer my
question regarding the origin of the custom.  Guess, that after all the
years of flying people, it's not a thing of importance perhaps?

When asked how he felt about the clap? The reply was; "I wish, that more
North Americans, could allow themselves to let loose in a similar fashion
more often.  It's nice to hear signs of life, from behind you, after hours
of being under great stress".

For what it's worth.

Regards,
Aniko

PS - Re the Malev thread, I must be a lucky one.  I have so enjoyed their
flights!  Especially appreciate their upgrade to a more western mentality of
service as of the last five years.  Really you all ... I've not had a
flight, that I could actually complain about during the past five years.  It
is my opinon, that they've come a tremendously long way!  Nor, do I feel,
that it's fair to mix the European mentality (let alone Hungary's mentality)
of service, with that of the Oriental.  Of course, the Oriental excells...
but then again, what less would any of us expect when understanding the base
of their culture?  In short my opinion is that one must be prepared to
accept only that, which that particular culture has to offer at that
particular time; and be happy to arrive alive!

Why ... one of the absolute treasures of travelling is experiencing a
different attitude, culture, mentality.  Why, should all airlines be subject
to comparison with that of the US for example?  And, what a lousy scale of
comparison!  Let's put it this way; I'd take a Malev over a Northwestern
flight any day.  Northwestern, in my opinion holds the crown for being the
lousiest of all airlines around.  Late departures, overbooking, dumping
their passengers, lousier than lousy service, no food, if there is any it's
hardly fit for consumption, in fact, their first class service is far below
the standards of Malev's cattle class.  So how about putting things into
perspective a bit, while dumping on Malev?  For at the least, they have an
excuse of being "new on the block" for western standards?  Surely,
Northwestern cannot claim that to be an excuse!  And good luck to KLM!
Who's recently partnered with Northwestern!
+ - Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 06:28 PM 06/12/96 +0100, you wrote:
>.....
>>I am quite surprised that very few people responded (especially form
>>Hungary!). Are the people there such sheep that they  do not even think
>>about things that affect their daily life or are things so engrained that
>>it is useless to try??
>>Peter
>>
>No, they are not "such sheep". Maybe you didn't notice, but most of the
>members of this list are Hungarians living in USA, Canada or other
>countries, *not* in Hungary.
>
Lajos... you must learn to be patient with Rev. Soltesz!  His preaching does
tend to overflow into other than religion at times.  And while in one hand,
he stands tall for the Hungarians at large, on the other, well, he can be
quite demeaning.  You know, whatever happens to suit his sermon of the day?
And, if you've not noticed ... he has an immense need for the last word on
any/all subject(s) - he *lives* for being acknowledged as being the one who
is always right.  Patience, Lajos, patience!;-)

Regards,
Aniko
+ - News - KOSOVO DAILY REPORT - 5 December 1996 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kosova Information Center
KOSOVA DAILY REPORT #1026
Prishtina, 5 December 1996

CONTENTS
[01] President Rugova Arrives in the United States
[02] Remarks on Kosova by Malcolm Rifkind and Hans van den Broek
[03] Kosovars Have the Right to Self-determination, Albanian Foreign
Minister Says
[04] LDK Officials Meet with U.S. Diplomats
[05] Albanians Stage Protest Rally in London Supporting Kosova
[06] 100 Days of Education Accord - Serbian Crackdown on Schools Continues
[07] Serbs Hold 90% of Kosova's Socially-Owned Capital, Kosova Expert Says
-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[01] President Rugova Arrives in the United States

President of the Republic of Kosova Dr. Ibrahim Rugova will begin today a
ten-day visit to the United States, the Bujku newspaper reported.

President Rugova is due to meet in Washington with senior members of the
American Administration, including U.S. Secretary of State Warren
Christopher.

The Kosova President will discuss Kosova with U.S. officials, legislators,
and the media, Bujku said.

In the run-up to the U.S. trip, Dr. Ibrahim Rugova met in Rome with
Italian
Foreign Minister Lamberto Dini and in Oslo with the Norwegian State
Secretary Jan Egeland.

[02] Remarks on Kosova by Malcolm Rifkind and Hans van den Broek

"We haven't stopped dealing with the Kosova issue", Malcolm Rifkind, the
Secretary of State for Foreign & Commonwealth Affairs, whose country is
hosting a conference on Bosnia, said during a press conference in London
Wednesday, in response to a question whether it was about time to
seriously
start dealing with the Kosova issue.

"There has been clear warning to the government in Belgrade that it will
neither have access to international financial institutions for economic
help, nor will it be able to improve its relations with the European
Union,
until there is proper progress on Kosova, until there is a restoration of
autonomy for Kosova. There was the beginnings of progress with regard to
the Education Agreement, reached with Mr. Rugova, but that is a very
limited area and the international community as a whole would share the
view that progress on Kosova is a necessary precondition to the Federal
Republic of Yugoslavia being able to have normal relations with
international financial institutions and with the European Union", Mr.
Malcolm Rifkind said in reply to the question on Kosova.

Meanwhile, Hans van Den Broek, the European Commission's Commissioner for
Foreign Relations, said during a press conference the European Union's
(EU)
position on Kosova is the restoration of the 1974 type of autonomy for
Kosova. He said discussions have been under way for the opening of an EU
office in Kosova.

[03] Kosovars Have the Right to Self-determination, Albanian Foreign
Minister Says

Addressing the London Peace Implementation Conference on Bosnia, head of
the Albania's delegation, Foreign Minister Tritan Shehu said Albania
applauds efforts for ensuring a lasting peace and the control and
reduction
of armament in the region. "However', said Mr. Shehu, "in certain regions
there are huge deployments of armaments and personnel, including militia
and paramilitary. Such is the situation in Kosova where the deployments
are
for purposes other that defense means."

Minister Shehu said "uncontrolled deployment in Kosova must be withdrawn;
repression, harassment and all kinds of violations must stop to ensure so
a
climate of confidence necessary for a substantial dialogue can start on
the
political issue of the status of Kosova in the presence of a third party."

Meanwhile in a press release issued today Tritan Shehu said "the important
thing is the realization that all peoples have equal rights to self-
determination. By this I mean the right of the Kosova population who chose
the most democratic and peaceful way for the fulfillment of their
aspirations. By taking this stance they, like the Albanian state, became a
factor of peace and stability in the area."

The statement further reads that "it is high time for everyone to
understand clearly that without a just solution of the issue [Kosova],
there can be no stable peace in the region. It is also high time for legal
institutions elected through the free vote to function on the basis of
stability and mutual relations."

[04] LDK Officials Meet with U.S. Diplomats

Dr. Fehmi Agani and Mr. Hydajet Hyseni, Vice-chairmen of the LDK and Edita
Tahiri, LDK Foreign Affairs Secretary, met today in Prishtina with Mr.
Nicholas Hill, Second Secretary of the U.S.

Mission in Belgrade, and Michael McClellan Director of the USIS Center in
Prishtina.

The senior LDK officials and American diplomats discussed about the
current
situation in Kosova.

The situation in the field of education in view of the Education Accord
signed between Presidents Rugova and Milosevic.

LDK vice-chairman Dr. Fehmi Agani spoke about the obstructions of the
Serbian regime, namely its refusal to have the mediating party take part
in
the implementation process. He reconfirmed the readiness of the Albanian
side to go ahead with the implementation of the agreement as soon as
possible.

[05] Albanians Stage Protest Rally in London Supporting Kosova

Hundreds of Albanians residing in London protested yesterday (Wednesday)
in
front of the building where the Implementation Conference on Bosnia was
being held.

In a response to a call made by the LDK branch and the Albanian Community
in Great Britain, Albanian protesters rallied at around 12 a.m, local time
at the intersection of the streets "Pall Mall" and "St. James Street",
today's Prishtina-based Bujku writes.

Since the conference did not include Kosova in the discussions, the
Albanian protesters said they wanted to bring the attention of the
international community to the consequences a potential break-out of a
conflict in Serbian-occupied Kosova. They shouted slogans in support of
addressing Kosova: "Peace Now or War Later", "The Balkan will Be Set in
Flares", etc.

Participants in the protest rally signed a petition which is due to be
sent
to those chairing the Conference.

[06] 100 Days of Education Accord - Serbian Crackdown on Schools Continues

By 9 December, in a few days time, the 100th day of the signing of the
Education Accord by President Rugova of Kosova and President Milosevic of
Serbia will have passed.

The Accord provided for an unconditional return of Albanian pupils and
students to their schools and the University of Prishtina, the Kosova
officials involved in brokering the deal said.

"Kosova Albanians end boycott of schools", international media rushed to
say, apparently adopting the interpretation of the Serbian regime, which
maintained the Albanians would go back to 'state schools', which in their
terminology meant Serbian schools.

The Albanians protested the very use of the word 'boycott' as totally
inaccurate, for the Accord was about ensuring restoration of the
mainstream
Kosova educational system, the bulk of which, naturally enough, is the
Albanian-language schools.

No progress whatsoever has been made towards the implementation of the
Accord.

This is only one more instance of the notorious practice of the communist
regime in Serbia to sign papers while showing no willingness to honor
them.
This happened in Bosnia, in Croatia, till the Serbian aggression was met
with a tough international response, including Nato bombs against the
troops of the Milosevic proxies, Karadzic and Mladic.

The Kosova officials said in September they expected much of the work in
the implementation of the Education Accord would be completed by the end
of
September. President of the Republic of Kosova Dr. Ibrahim Rugova
emphasized the importance of the Accord as an initial step towards a more
comprehensive framework of a talks process which would ensure a negotiated
settlement to the Kosova issue.

Western governments welcomed the Accord as a good first step, stressing
the
need for a speedy implementation of its terms.

As time passed, however, certain Albanian circles in Kosova accused
President Rugova of having been engaged in a move which would only serve
Milosevic's intentions of securing a lifting of the international
pressure,
first and foremost the economic and political sanctions.

The Serbian regime has indeed capitalized somewhat on the Accord.

While ostensibly promoting some kind of a more compromising stance before
the international community, the Serbian police have continued their
repressive campaign against the Albanian schools in Kosova, targeting
students and teachers alike.

When it comes to the implementation of the Accord, the Milosevic regime
has
obstructed it from the outset by its insistence to exclude the third
party,
the Sant Egidio Community, which had mediated between the Kosovar and the
Serbian side.

The Serbian regime's behavior makes the firm position of the Kosovar side
on the necessity of the presence of a third party all the more convincing.

The late Dr. Xhavit Ahmeti, who was involved in the brokering of the deal
on schools and named one of the three members in the joint committee for
its implementation, told the media a week or so before he died in a car
crash on 21 November, that this school term, namely January 1997 will, be
the end of the test period for the willingness of the Serbian side to go
ahead with the implementation of the Accord. Albanians will legitimately
enough look for other ways to ensure they go-back to their school and
university premises beginning with the spring term [beginning in
February],
Dr. Xhavit Ahmeti said, warning that the Education accord will by then be
meaningless.

The Albanian schools in Kosova continue going through severe hardships.
The
overwhelming majority of the secondary schools, and all the faculties and
colleges of the University of Prishtina, have to operate in private homes
and makeshift classrooms at a time the Serbian police seals off the public
school buildings in Kosova.

Albanian pupils, students and teachers face the devilishly hard task of
education amidst the continued crackdown of the Serbian police forces,
targeting all those involved in exercising their right to education in
their mother to tongue, in their schools, in their own country.

[07] Serbs Hold 90% of Kosova's Socially-Owned Capital, Kosova Expert Says

The economic situation in Kosova is alarming amidst systematic and all-
encompassing Serbian regime's campaigns of plundering and exploitation of
the Kosova resources, Dr. Muj& Gjonbalaj, an associate of the Economic
Institute of Kosova, said in an interview carried in today's issue of the
Prishtina-based Bujku.

Dr. Gjonbalaj said the Economic Institute of Kosova (EIK) will soon come
up
with a comprehensive report on the economic developments in Kosova since
the Serbian occupation in 1989/90. As many as 25 EIK experts have been
involved in the project, which is expected to offer a thorough report on
the negative effects of the Serbian regimes practices in Kosova, including
the various abuses of capital, arbitrary integration of Kosova socially-
owned (public) firms and companies with those in Serbia, and other illegal
steps highly detrimental to the Kosova economy.

Dr. Gjonbalaj said that according to some estimates the 7-8 per cent Serb
minority in Kosova holds over 90 per cent of the socially-owned capital of
Kosova. In the wake of the en masse dismissal of Albanian work-force and
managing personnel, the Kosova capital and assets were either given free
or
extremely cheap to Serbs, customarily to members of the Serb ruling party
or those supportive to the regime. In the name of the so-called
'integration of Serbia's economy', assets and equipment worth billions of
dollars have been sent outside Kosova, Dr.Gjonbalaj said.

It is estimated that over two thirds of the Kosova population live today
in
striking poverty, on the verge of existence, and the situation is already
alarming amidst ever deteriorating trends, Dr.

Muj& Gjonbalaj told Bujku.

Kosova Information Center


------------------------------

End of kosovo-digest V1 #152
****************************
+ - HELP ORGANIZE a DEMONSTRATION in Belgrade Serbia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Here is the latest from Belgrade :

1) Radio B-92 E-mail


2) The group of people organizing the manifestation is called : CENTER FOR
MENTAL DECONTAMINATION " and the Leader is Mrs. Borka Pavizevic .
Rue Bircaninova 21 Belgrade 11000 Yougoslavia . Tel 381-11-681423 fax
681422.

 The manifestation will be on Sunday December 8th and the French
intellectuals ( I just spoke to them ) they all will go .
+ - News - Christian Science Monitor on Radio Station B-92 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

B o s N e t  - December 5, 1996
> ===========================================================
             Also available on Usenet as BIT.LISTSERV.BOSNET
___________________________________________________________________
To subscribe/unsubscribe to BosNet send message to 
                 subscribe   bosnet-digest [your e-mail address]
        ____________________________________________________
The Christian Science Monitor
Friday December 6, 1996 Edition

     Serbia's Leader Risks Street Protests to Keep Iron Grip on Economy

     Paul Wood, Special to The Christian Science Monitor

     BELGRADE -- Vladimir K. is just the kind of businessman who could
     jumpstart Serbia's faltering economy.

     His chain of upscale bakeries turns a nice profit.
     But now he says the local authorities in Belgrade,
     Serbia's capital, want to take one of his stores
     away from him.

     "It is almost impossible to make a proper living
     here," he says. "You have no idea. We pray that
     things will change."

     Mr. K. is not alone. In fact, local city councils
     control many of Serbia's most important businesses
     most electricity plants, many manufacturing
     facilities, the state-run airline, and a critical
     munitions factory in the south.

     These local councils have long been dominated by the as violent.
     socialist party of President Slobodan Milosevic. And
     Mr. Milosevic's sway over local party officials has
     been a key element in his ability to keep pervasive
     control over Serbia's economy - and set up web of
     cushy patronage jobs that beget loyalty among officials.

     So when the opposition won control of councils in Belgrade and
several
     other key cities in recent elections, Milosevic's power was
threatened.
     But when he overturned the election results the people took to the
     streets in the biggest and most sustained protest against the
     government since Milosevic came to power nine years ago. Day after
day,
     the opposition is able to muster crowds of 100,000 to demand that the
     election results are reinstated.

     On Wednesday, the opposition claimed the biggest demonstration yet in
     Belgrade with more than 150,000 people in the streets. Discontent
over
     Milosevic's economic policies has swollen the crowds.

     International agencies say one-third of the population lives in
     poverty. The Red Cross feeds thousands of people in Serbia every day.
     Unemployment is 50 percent; annual inflation 100 percent.

     After three weeks of mass demonstrations and no official response,
the
     authorities yesterday made the first sign of movement. The Serbian
     government adopted a number of populist measures, including a
reduction
     in electricity bills, and prompt payment of pensions. And, in an
     apparent attempt to open talks with the protesters, Milosevic began
     sacking senior socialist officials. In a one-sentence report, state
     television announced the resignation of the mayor of Serbia's second
     city, Nis.

     Diplomats said the most "blatant" electoral fraud took place in Nis,
     where voter returns were allegedly altered by hand. The socialist
     mayor, Mile Ilic, ran the city as his own fiefdom. He attracted
     personal criticism from opposition demonstrators in a way no other
     local politician had.

     Despite this, the authorities made no announcement on the
opposition's
     minimum demand - recognition of election victories - and for the time
     being, the huge demonstrations are continuing.

     To lose control of the city councils would severely threaten
     Milosevic's power. Belgrade's city council earlier this year, for
     instance, assumed control of Serbia's last politically independent
     television station, Studio B, by means of a court order.

     The council argued that the privatization years earlier of Studio B
was
     invalid, and the city was therefore still the owner.

          'If you don't have good relations with the state, you don't
          have good business.'
          - Dragoljub Karic

     "They are thieves," says one Studio B employee who lost his
     shareholding in the company when the city council took over.

     Many think the takeover was ordered by Milosevic, who was reportedly
     unhappy about the station's independent coverage of politics. The
     socialists' grip on power in part depends on maintaining their grip
on
     the media. If the opposition controlled Belgrade's council they would
     also control Studio B.

     Other television stations in Serbia are under independent ownership,
     but their coverage of the huge demonstrations is either nonexistent
or
     mirrors that of state television. BK TV is owned by Dragoljub Karic,
     who is seen as one of the government's favorite businessmen - and one
     of the country's richest. Having successful businessmen close to him
is
     also appears to be Milosevic tactic for retaining power.

     Mr. Karic and his brothers started out as musicians in a nightclub
     band. But he denies their success came with political help.

     "In every country it's the same," he says. "If you don't have good
     relations with the state, you don't have good business. But there's
no
     secret, we succeeded by working hard."

     But Karic's friends say his huge empire would suffer at official
hands
     if his television station caused problems for the Milosevic
     administration.

     He has a lot to lose: Karic's company is the biggest privately owned
     multinational in the former East bloc. It deals in mobile phones,
     construction, banking, and owns a television station.

     But business has taken a downward turn because of the turmoil over
the
     election results.

     Another whose business has suffered is Vladimir K. Every day he puts
up
     metal shutters at his city center shop - in case of a violent clash
     between police and protesters - and turns customers away. But, he
says,
     it is a price he is prepared to pay to change Serbia.
+ - poetry title (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I'd be very grateful for any and all translations of the following title
of a poem by Balint Balassi  (no. 67 in Szila2dy's edition):


        Bizonnyal isme2rem rajtam nagy harogod


Also, does anyone know of an English translation of Balassi's works?


Thanks again.


Norma Rudinsky


+ - Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Fri, 6 Dec 1996, Sam Stowe wrote:
<SNIP>
> I believe the terminology in use among the guys who fly these monsters is
> "spooling" the engines. Lajos' intuition serves him particularly well on
> the last point in his post.
> Sam Stowe
I wrote a direct note to Lajos, but since most of you appear to know
little about flying the usage of the term ROTATE in this context means
not that the engines rotate but rather that the airplane is rotating
about its axis for takeoff. This occurs when the plane reaches at least
its minimum speed required to fly. The captain says rotate, meaning if
you will pull up the nose, so that the plane can get into the air.
Let me assure all of you that commercial airlines with jest do not rotate
their engines about any axis. It is permanently mounted as is immovable.
{perchance someone thinks wrongly, the engine vanes do rotate, but that
is its natural state when it is running].
Peter
+ - Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Well perhaps Aniko rather discuss me instead of the issue. Let me re-iterate:
The Hungarian police methods giving tikcets and collecting funds
on-the-spot is wrong and corrupt. Care to address that issue Aniko or you
rather re-route your thinking again?
Peter
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

After reading a number of Sam Stowe's and Joe Szalai's postings, I find little
difference.  Maybe that is the reason for the bickering.  Am I missing
something?  You are too smart for me.

However there are some basics that seem obvious even to me:

It matters little if you are liberal or conservative, as long as you true to
your country.

A Russian or Yugoslav communist during WWII would have been my enemy, but they
would also be patriots and enemies that I could respect.

Hungarian or American communists are traitors.  They are garbage because they
put the interests of another country (Soviet Union) ahead of the interests
their own people.

What hurts me most is that we had such a wonderful opportunity after the
Soviet troops left Hungary.  What did the members of the first freely elected
government do?  They lined their own packets.  So the people dumped the
bastards and put the old communist bastards back in power.

I just know that we are not what we appear to be.  Our people are courageous
and patriotic and things will get better.  I believe that the next generation
of Hungarians has the fire that this generation lost.  Our National Anthem
gives me hope for the future.

Isten ald me a Magyart....  (God bless the Hungarian....)

Istvan

----------
From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of Sam Stowe
Sent:  Friday, December 06, 1996 3:49 PM
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: To everybody

In article >, "Eva S.
Balogh" > writes:

>Subject:       Re: To everybody
>From:  "Eva S. Balogh" >
>Date:  Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:09:30 -0500
>
>At 02:20 PM 11/30/96 -0500, Joe Szalai wrote to Sam Stowe:
>
>>"My side" was in the streets of Budapest in '56, in
>>Prague in '68, in Kent State University in '70, in Beijing in '89, and
in
>>Belgrade today.  Meanwhile, "your side" is watching football on TV.
>
>        Wow! I haven't realized for the longest time that Joe and I are
on
>the same side! How silly of me.
>
>        Eva Balogh
>
>

Somehow Joe's more flamboyent soundings-off never seem to make their way
intact to my server. I think he posted it during the two- or three-day
period when the AOL server had run through its lithium prescription and
the pharmacy hadn't delivered more. Nevertheless, I await Joe's
explanation of how he can play the preening leftist when a sizable chunk
of the anti-Slobbo crowd in Beograd with which he claims solidarity are
monarchists, rabid nationalists and worse. "With the lights out, it's less
dangerous..."
Sam Stowe

"Got a devil's haircut
in my mind..."
-- Beck
+ - Re: Hungarian beer (was: MALEV) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
 (Eva S. Balogh) wrote:

>        I should check whether my liquor store has the Pilsener or not. I
>agree with the George it is the best beer in the world except its alcoholic
>contents is about twice of American beer which may come as a surprise after
>gozzling down half a litter on a hot summer afternoon.

This is most likely a misunderstanding based on the strange Central-
European measure used for beers.  In Hungary, and possibly in Czechia,
the bottles are marked with a B with an uppercase small o, or Balling
degree, followed by a number around ten.  This is not alcoholic content,
it is an indication of the dry-matter content of the swill before
fermentation.  The alcoholic content of beers is around 5% in Central
Europe, as in most countries.

Some extra strong brews of beers have alcoholic contents between 5 and
10%, but I doubt that there is enough sugar in ordinary malted barley
to produce that much alcohol.  Adding sugar in one way or another is the
key, but such practices have been considered no cricket in the region
where German beer laws applied.

George Antony
+ - Re: Hungarian long step (was Hungarian beer) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
 (Eva S. Balogh) wrote:

>Well, it just shows that I didn't too often order either nagyfroccs,
>kisfroccs or hosszulepes in my first twenty years of life. Yes, I'm
afraid,
>Gyorgy is right. The hosszulepes is the least lethal of the three,
having
>the least amount of wine in it (1 to 2).

Of the three, it is.  However, the thinnest legitimate spritzer in
Hungary used to be the vicehazmester (deputy janitor): 100 ml of wine
and 400 ml of soda water in a 0.5 l beer mug.  This also refers to the
hazmester (or janitor) variant, 200 ml wine and 300 ml soda water in a
similar vessel.  Such terms were fast going out of fashion when I was
a uni student and are probably mostly forgotten nowadays.

George Antony
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 01:36 PM 12/7/96 UT, Istvan Lippai wrote:

<snip all the hatred)
>Isten ald me a Magyart....  (God bless the Hungarian....)
>
>Istvan


Lippai ur,

"Isten a'ld meg a Magyart..." is how the Hungarian anthem starts!
            ^^^

When you get into a hateful bluster, as you seem to do in all your posts,
you lose all sense of proportion.  Have you ever thought of getting a life
that didn't revolve around god and love of country?

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr. Szalai,

I admit that I am immensely proud of my Hungarian heritage.

It is God and love of country that helped me and millions of other decent
Hungarians endure 15 years of communist-Soviet oppression.  I asked God
(Magyarok Istenet) to help me not to bring shame to my people when I arrived
in the United States 40 years ago.  I am grateful to those Hungarians who came
before me, at my school and place of employment, and created a positive
impression for me.  I hope to add to that.

I always consider the consequences of my actions and statements,  How will
they reflect upon my fellow Hungarians?  I am not a religious person, but have
an abiding faith that God is just and merciful, and life in Hungary will get
better.  If you ever sang the Hungarian Anthem during the darkest days of
communist oppression, you would know what I mean!  Only in church could you
sing the Hungarian Anthem.  You would get arrested for singing the Hungarian
Anthem any other place.

The communists would brand you the enemy (ellenseg), torture you and maybe
kill you.  I have Hungarian friends, living in the United States, who spent
years in communist prisons for committing no crime whatsoever.  They are good,
patriotic, honest Hungarians.  (They are also loyal American citizens.)  They
did not deserve to be tortured.

I still remember my Mother's words when I would leave for school as a small
child.  "Do not say anything because they take your Father away." (Ne mondjal
semmit mert elhurcoljak az Apadat).

What about it Mr. Joe Szalai?

What about your charges of "hateful bluster"?

I do not consider it hateful to call garbage, garbage.  Communist traitors are
garbage not because I say so, that is what they are.

With my first posting, I introduced myself.  You know what I stand for.  I can
also deduct, from your postings, what you stand for.  I assure you that I do
not hate you, unless you are a communist or communist sympathizer.
Fortunately, there are very few communists or communist sympathizers,
especially among Hungarians, so I have very little reason to hate.

I am just reminding some of our younger people, what it was to live under
communist rule.

I do not do it with hatred.  I do it with love.

Lippai Istvan

----------
From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of Joe Szalai
Sent:  Saturday, December 07, 1996 8:48 AM
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: To everybody

At 01:36 PM 12/7/96 UT, Istvan Lippai wrote:

<snip all the hatred)
>Isten ald me a Magyart....  (God bless the Hungarian....)
>
>Istvan


Lippai ur,

"Isten a'ld meg a Magyart..." is how the Hungarian anthem starts!
            ^^^

When you get into a hateful bluster, as you seem to do in all your posts,
you lose all sense of proportion.  Have you ever thought of getting a life
that didn't revolve around god and love of country?

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: Inquiry on MALEV (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

As to clapping and wishing Americans would, too, they did quite often back
about 30 years ago.  I remember my early flying opportunities in the 60s and
early 70s when people would clap upon landing to signify a good flight.

I guess these days flying, to Americans, has become so routine that clapping
seems a rather silly gesture, for better or worse.  Let's face it, flying
itself, to Americans, is as routine a way of getting from one place to another
as driving a car.

Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
+ - Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>>
>Lajos... you must learn to be patient with Rev. Soltesz!  His preaching
does
>tend to overflow into other than religion at times.  And while in one
hand,
>he stands tall for the Hungarians at large, on the other, well, he can
be
>quite demeaning.  You know, whatever happens to suit his sermon of the
day?
>And, if you've not noticed ... he has an immense need for the last word
on
>any/all subject(s) - he *lives* for being acknowledged as being the one
who
>is always right.  Patience, Lajos, patience!;-)
>
>Regards,
>Aniko

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

..But he did bring up a point , which is more than legit.

Laszlo Balogh

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
+ - Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Peter:

At 08:08 AM 07/12/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Well perhaps Aniko rather discuss me instead of the issue.
Peter, you are truly howlarious.  You make undeserved generally demeaning,
judgemental remarks aimed at an entire country's occupants - simply because
they had the audocity not to address your own concern - but you don't like
it much, if anyone, dares to bring it to your attention.  Or, is the entire
group supposed to jumping to your beckoning call of each and every issue
brought forth.

 Let me re-iterate:
>The Hungarian police methods giving tikcets and collecting funds
>on-the-spot is wrong and corrupt. Care to address that issue Aniko or you
>rather re-route your thinking again?
It would be a pleasure to discuss this topic to a further death, if it would
serve a purpose of sort.  Like changing the corruption.  Since that is
unlikely to happen through a discussion from here; no thanks I don't care to
address the issue - for it would serve zero purpose other than sharing my
own experiences with all.  I tend to like to see results for energies
extended you see.  Re your last statement above, I would like to re-route
*your* thinking at times - along with your tactics also.  Besides, I
thought, that I exercised great self control in talking with Lajos.  I did,
after all, manage to stick to only facts - as presented by yourself.

Aniko
>Peter
>
>
+ - Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:28 PM 07/12/96 GMT, you wrote:
>>>
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>
>..But he did bring up a point , which is more than legit.
>
>Laszlo Balogh
>
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Which point would that be Laszlo?  That all Hungarians are "such sheep" or
the one that "they don't think about what affects their daily lives" or
would it be the one "so ingrained that it's useless to try"?
Aniko

>
+ - Re: Nadia Comaneci / Kemenes Ilona (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Zoltan Gagyi-Palffy wrote:
>
> [Posted and mailed]
>
> In article >,
>         Peter k Chong > writes:
> > Olvastam, hogy Nadia Comaneci (Kemenes Ilona) egy magyar apja van
> > (Gheorgie Comaneci - Kemenes Gyvrgy) is ezirt Ilona egy filszarmasz
> > magyar. De azt nem hittem... Nadia Comaneci (fil)-magyar szarmasz
> > ember-e? Rigen hallottam ezt. Mig nem biztos vagyok.
> >
> > Peter Chong
> >
> > Ui. Mi tvrtint Ilonaval 1980 utan? Kmvancsi vagyok...
>
>  I only answer because you sent me this message also via e-mail.
>
> 1. You should know that "Ilona" has nothing to do with "Nadia". It would
> translate as "Elena" in Romanian. So much about precision.
>
> 2. The Kemenes - Comaneci connection has proved to be nonexistent up
> to now, aside from the possibility of common origin for the two names,
> which has nothing to do with the ethnical origin of the person wearing
> it.
>
> 3. In 1981 Nadia has still won at the Universiade, after that she
> retired, in 1989 she left the country and today she lives in the USA
> together with his husband, Burt Conner (also gymnast), whom she
> married this year in Bucharest.
>
> 4. When looking for Hungarian connections in the Romanian gymnastics,
> I really wonder why nobody cares about Kati Szabo, definitely not so
> famous as Nadia, but still winner of countless medals in European and
> World Championships, and winner of 3 or 4 gold medals at the Los
> Angeles Olympic games in 1984? Now, what happened to her???
>
> Zoli
> --
> http://dipmza.physik.uni-mainz.de/~gagyi_palffy/homepage.html

Well Said, Zoli!  I would like to list her on my Hungarian Olympians
page.  If you haven't already done so, check it out, it's accessible
from the URL below.  Please send me the info regarding her gold medals
so I could add it to the list.

"HipCat"
--
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/
+ - Hungary will now every secret (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

BUCHAREST, Dec. 6 (UPI) -- Seven parties making up Romania's
new,
rightist parliamentary majority pledged Friday to support premier Victor
Ciorbea's tough economic measures by signing a solidarity pact.
        ``We have signed the pact in order to see a real economic
reform
through,'' said President Emil Constantinescu shortly after the
ceremony.
        With more than 20 ministerial jobs divided among Christian
Democrats,
Liberals and Social Democrats, the new ruling coalition sanctioned by
the nOV. 3 elections looked poised to cut deep into what had been
regarded as a slow-paced economic transition.
        ``It is not going to be easy, because (the reform) has been
postponed
for seven years, but if we continue to relish in cosmetic steps we shall
never make it,'' said Constantinescu.
        Faced with 80 percent annual inflation and a budget deficit of
10
percent of the gross domestic product, a far cry from the targeted 2.5
percent, Ciorbea's Cabinet pledged to scrap redundant industries and
curtail subsidies while forcing the privatization of all national
utilities.
        ``We are going to take very difficult measures and that is why
we
called it a 'solidarity pact', hoping to rally the whole nation behind
us,'' said an energetic Petre Roman, Romania's first premier whose
Social Democratic Union proved decisive in securing the needed
parliamentary majority.
        Ion Diaconescu, chairman of the Democratic Convention, the
uncontested winner of the general elections and holder of 12 portfolios
in the new Cabinet, put it bluntly that the pact had been ``imposed'' by
the political situation.
        ``The fact is we needed a stable majority in Parliament,'' he
said.
        The parliamentary majority includes also the Ethnic Hungarians'
Democratic Union, for the first time in Romania's history represented in
the Cabinet by a minister of tourism.
        The move triggered harsh reactions from former President Ion
Iliescu's Social Democracy Party which ruled for the last four years.


 ``O n e  e t h n i c  H u n g a r i a n   i n  t h e   g o v e r n m e
n t
 m e an s t h a t   H u n g a r y  w i l l   k n ow  e v e r y   s e c r
e t
 o f     o u r   n a t i o n,''      said deputy   A d r i a n  N a s t
a s e.

       The new government will be sworn in Monday, after weeks of
fervent
squabbles on who should take which ministry.
+ - Re: The English Patient (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:42 PM 12/5/96 -0400, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:

<snip>
>Thanks for the info. I intend to read the book first, before seeing the movie!
>
>BTW, people might be interested to know that I heard part of a commentary on
>CBC radio today in which a gentleman whose name I did not catch was
>criticizing the fact that the Almasy of the movie was portrayed as a
>romantic dreamer who is so in love that, in order to save his lady fair, he
>collaborates with the Nazis. This gentleman says that the *real* Almasy
>willingly collaborated with the Nazis and that books and movies should be
>truer to the historical truth of these things. I thought that was
>interesting, because it indicates that this Almasy was based on a historical
>character. Maybe the same one who, according to someone on SCM, discovered
>the Arabs of Hungarian descent living in Egypt in the 1920's. It would be
>interesting to find out more about this historical Almasy (would it have
>been spelled Almassy?). Does anyone know of any books which might tell about
>his life and adventures?

I heard the above commentary on CBC also.  I too missed the persons name on
the radio but I think it was Elizabeth Pathy Salett.  I say that because of
the following article in today's Record (Kitchener, Ontario).  I'll quote
the whole article.
________________

Ondaatje defends film, novel

Michael Ondaatje has defended his novel The English Patient and the film it
inspired against a Washington Post article that accuses him of downplaying
the Nazi sympathies of a long-dead Hungarian count.

In an opinion piece titled A Queasy Fleeing About the English Patient,
Elizabeth Pathy Salett writes that her memory of Count Laszlo de Almasy does
not match that of the character portrayed by Ralph Fiennes in the movie.

"Unlike the film portrayal, Almasy was not an accidental spy responding to
personal tragedy," she writes.  "He was a committed Nazi collaborator."

In both the novel and the film, Almasy is a morally ambiguous character who
ends up assisting the Nazis in Egypt.  But Salett, a Hungarian-born American
who offers training in "diversity issues," argues that the real Almasy had a
long-standing relationship with the German fascists.

Ondaatje argues that Almasy's precise role has never been certain, and that
Salett is asking too much of a work of fiction.

          'Facts are murky'

"I wrote about an enigmatic desert explorer whose role when World War II
broke out was to be a betrayer," the Toronto author says in a written
response sent to the Globe and Mail.  "In reality, the facts are still murky
and still uncertain - to some historians he was a spy, some others think he
was a double agent."

The novel "is not a history lesson but an interpretation of human emotions -
love, desire, betrayals in war and betrayals in peace - in a historical
time," Ondaatje writes.  "It holds no sympathy for the Nazis, in fact the
most shocking scene in the film depicts a Nazi torture.  It is about
forgiveness, how people come out of a war."

While an accompanying article in the Washington Post likened the film's
historical approach to Oliver Stone's films Nixon and JFK, Ondaatje places
it in the tradition of Shakespeare and Arthur Miller.

"From Homer to Richard III to the present, literature has based its
imaginative stories on historical event.  We need those epics and literary
works to discover not the facts of the Trojan War but the human emotions,
the human truth discovered in the story."

                                 Canadian Press
_________________________

Joe Szalai
+ - To Canadians only (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Canadians:
I heard yesterday that Canadian Broadcasting International (CBC) had its
funds cut so severely that they may have to go off the air.

This will affect the Hungarian and other language programs on shortwave.

Any comments, suggestions on how to keep them on the air (besides giving
them money).... How does one influence the Canadian parliament about this?

Peter Soltesz
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> I always consider the consequences of my actions and statements,  How will
> they reflect upon my fellow Hungarians?  I am not a religious person, but hav
e
> an abiding faith that God is just and merciful, and life in Hungary will get
> better.  If you ever sang the Hungarian Anthem during the darkest days of
> communist oppression, you would know what I mean!  Only in church could you
> sing the Hungarian Anthem.  You would get arrested for singing the Hungarian
> Anthem any other place.
>

Well, it won't reflect well on your fellow hungarians if you make
statements which are untrue. I lived in Hungary till '73 and again
in the 80s, and we had to learn the Anthem by heart in school, so did my
children. On every possible occasion it was sung, and you had to
stand up, when you heard it.
Putting your country or your supposed ethnic origin above your
humanity can end up in genocide, please think before you utter
patriotic sermons.
The present "commie" government was elected by an appearent majority
of the hungarian electors, I hope you don't hate them all.


> Lippai Istvan
>


+ - Re: To Canadians only (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:55 PM 12/7/96 -0500, Peter Soltesz wrote:

>Dear Canadians:
>I heard yesterday that Canadian Broadcasting International (CBC) had its
>funds cut so severely that they may have to go off the air.
>
>This will affect the Hungarian and other language programs on shortwave.
>
>Any comments, suggestions on how to keep them on the air (besides giving
>them money).... How does one influence the Canadian parliament about this?

Yes, Radio Canada International will be shut down by March 31.  The federal
government and the CBC were unable to come up with the $16 million needed to
keep RCI going.  The service was to be closed this past March but Canadian
travellers, soldiers posted abroad, exporters, and foreigeners interested in
Canada called for the service to be saved.

It's a real shame on the political right wing that one of the richest
countries in the world won't fund its shortwave service.  I guess there's no
money to be made from such a service so the right wing has no use for it.
Welcome to the future.

If you're interested in influencing the Canadian government, write, email or
call the nearest Canadian embassy or consulate.

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: To everybody (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The Hungarians on this list who had to survive the darkest years of
communist-Soviet domination know that you are lying.  They also know that I
speak the truth.

So, you "lived in Hungary till '73 and again in the 80s"?  Obviously, you
belonged to the trusted few who the communist traitors allowed to travel at
will.  That says it all, comrade Durant (Durant elvtars).

I was not so fortunate.  The first time I could visit Hungary was in 1973, and
that was only after the United States, Dept. of State got the communist
government to agree not harm those of us who participated in the 1956
uprising.

And you "had to learn the Anthem"?  How unfortunate for you.  I consider it a
privilege to sing the Hungarian Anthem with my Hungarian brothers and sisters.

I do not care if the love of my country offends the likes of you.  What is
this garbage about genocide?  Love of your own people does not require hatred
of others.

We should never forget the genocide committed against the Hungarian people
after 1945 and 1956.  Hundreds of thousands of Hungarians were tortured and
slaughtered by the communist traitors.

How about that comrade Durant (Durant elvtars)?



----------
From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of Durant
Sent:  Monday, December 07, 1992 5:55 PM
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: To everybody

> I always consider the consequences of my actions and statements,  How will
> they reflect upon my fellow Hungarians?  I am not a religious person, but
have
> an abiding faith that God is just and merciful, and life in Hungary will get
> better.  If you ever sang the Hungarian Anthem during the darkest days of
> communist oppression, you would know what I mean!  Only in church could you
> sing the Hungarian Anthem.  You would get arrested for singing the Hungarian
> Anthem any other place.
>

Well, it won't reflect well on your fellow hungarians if you make
statements which are untrue. I lived in Hungary till '73 and again
in the 80s, and we had to learn the Anthem by heart in school, so did my
children. On every possible occasion it was sung, and you had to
stand up, when you heard it.
Putting your country or your supposed ethnic origin above your
humanity can end up in genocide, please think before you utter
patriotic sermons.
The present "commie" government was elected by an appearent majority
of the hungarian electors, I hope you don't hate them all.


> Lippai Istvan
>


+ - Re: Communist or not? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 6 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:
<snippety>
> Is it really an exercise in intelligence to choose between
> the candidates? What conclusion you draw from Reagan been
> president for eight years? I suggest, however genius a candidate
> would be, no intelligent or otherwise electorate would know anything
> about it, if he didn't have a few million dollars of the beautiful
> people to back him. You have a somewhat distorted notion about
> democracy, nearly as deformed as a stalinist's - they were voting
> too, you know - and had about as much choice...
>
Are you saying that in Hungary, for example, there is no money sepnt on
campaining?

 > > Your last comment shows that you are also a racist.
> sorry, I deleted the bit you are refering to, but it was obvious to
> me, that I was repeating the sentiments of some - yes, racist
> americans, who blame any economics hickups of their country's economy
> on other people. More sarcasm lost...
I am not sure that I agree with this one. We Americans do buy Japanese
cars and electronics, at times German, English, and stuff from all over
the world. If they do something better then we then so be it.
I agree only in a little part, namely that the world economics system may
default into those countries that can produce things the cheapest -- not
necessarily good for the host country --. Then we will need to buyt
commodities only from one or two countries that have it. Thus we will
have nthing more than a bunch of cartels.
----
> Well, if it comes with strings attached, such as cuts in public
> spending, and with more spent on servicing debts, than anything else,
> than the people are not benefitting, for sure! Most international
> loan seem to finance imports and grants to encourage
> more profit being made for international corporations.

Here is where I disagree. All countries do not have to take up loans,
just like you do not have to borrow any money, unless you are willing to
pay for it and it is important to you (i.e. a home, a car, etc.). The
same is true for any country -- the people must need and want the $$$$.
The issue at times is that it is the leaders that take on the loans and
people get burdened with it -- just like in HU (and elsewhere).
Someone must take the responsibility and that MUST be the government that
takes up the loan!

> > Most banks will not lend you mortgage money unless they have the
> > requesite collateral to assure that they are not going wind up holding
> > the bag!
>
> But it is not like that in real life. Countries all over the world
> are suffering under unservicable debts, the net flow of money is from
> the poor to the rich - as always.
> Here in the UK the house repossessions by banks and building
> societies run in the hundred thousands  yearly.

Well perhaps the banks were giving too freely to those who could nto,
would not pay it back!
---
> Like everywhere else, financing corporate and private capital making
> more profit.
Perhaps in part you are right, yet it is private capital that creates
jobs and businesses -- altough that may be hard for you to accept --
in the USA 80 percent of all jobs are with small businesses, NOT large
behemoths or government (aka HU).

Peter Soltesz
+ - Re: AUTO Justice in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

snip

>Lajos... you must learn to be patient with Rev. Soltesz!  His preaching does
>tend to overflow into other than religion at times.  And while in one hand,
>he stands tall for the Hungarians at large, on the other, well, he can be
>quite demeaning.  You know, whatever happens to suit his sermon of the day?
>And, if you've not noticed ... he has an immense need for the last word on
>any/all subject(s) - he *lives* for being acknowledged as being the one who
>is always right.  Patience, Lajos, patience!;-)
>
>Regards,
>Aniko
>
Take it easy Aniko! I am patient. See our (I mean Peter's and mine) debate
on aircrafts, thrust reverse, etc. I don't want to convince him (or anybody
else), but it is a good occasion to look after things and improve my English:)

Lajos

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