In article > yoshimi masuo,
 writes:
>I want to visit ecseri flea market on nagykorsi u. this Saturday, but I 
>found a sentence on th Rough Guide (traveler's guide) saying that it 
>opens only on weekdays.  Is this true?

AFAIK, (my aunt is working there) it is open on saturdays.

>Also, how can I get to there from the airport using public 
>transportation?

That's quite complicated. I'd take the red 93 (bus) till the end of
the blue metro. I'd catch a taxi there. The taxi at the airport would
be much more expensive.
I don't know direct busline from here to the Ecseri. If you don't like
taxi, take the blue metro till Határ út, and would take the bus
194 ??? 196 (I am not sure, but it starts by the tram station, just
in front of the metro way up) which has a stop very near to the
Ecseri.

Good luck,
Tamas

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Subject: SHOULD WE LET EX-SOVIETS INTO THE WEST? (was: Re: visas, sovoks and 
everything (was: Some statistics about Russia from WWW)

In article >,  says...

 (alex) wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,  says...
>>>
 (alex) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Then what would happen is you would have more of those "Sovoks" 
>>>>coming to America!
>>>
>>>Cut the crap, alex. If you can. Doing comparative anatomical research
>>>is not my most favourite pastime, but I have strong feeling that
>>>"sovoks" and "bydlo" like me or like that hypothetical dude from
>>>Magadan are more interesting to the US of A than you yourself.
>>>Moneywise that is.
>
>>Comedy aside. You are very, very wrong.
>
>Spelling, grammar, and all that anti-American shit aside - don't be
>that touchy. The majority of people who are able to bitch about the
>American consular bureaucracy here share a very interesting
>characteristic of paying (or being able to do that in their immediate
>future - right after the graduation) somewhat more tax dollars to the
>US of A than your median (or even average) true-blue American-born
>American. So much for the communist ethics and education.
>
>For the record - not long ago the Dept of State started a shameful
>practice of using local labour in foreign countries. That is - a
>couple years ago the consulates were staffed with those who are known
>as "peons" - American students and graduates who wanted to practice in
>foreign languages, lifetyles, and diplomatic issues. Right now almost
>all the eomplyees at the embassies are locals, which effectively means
>that the money allocated to the embassies and collected for consular
>services are in large part funnelled to local economies, thus
>depriving American citizens.
>
>Now back to your questions:
>
>>"... are more interesting to the US of A...moneywise that is."
>>As opposed to citizens born and educated here?
>>I should think and hope not!
>>In any case, what would that interest really be?
>
>To further the achievements of what is known as "America, America from
>sea to shining sea".

My! Such a deep regard for America, those Ex-Soviets from Russia have!
I seem to read different things here though and continuously, wonder why?


>
>>Somewhat voyeristic as in a zoo?
>>Do people from Russia usually bring a lot of money 
>>(along with their splendid attitude and communist work ethic) to this country
?
>>This is, to be polite about it, rather doubtful.
>
>It sure is if you don't know shit about "non-resident aliens" from
>Russia.
>
>>Why do they want to *leave* there and come *here*?
>
>To make more money, I guess? It might be a surprise to you, but the
>majority of Americans going to Russia go there with exactly the same
>purpose.


A "majority" of Americans do *not* go to Russia, "to make more money,"
despite your saying and implying that it is such a great and wonderful land of 
opportunity.
You Russians must do better at keeping those American wetbacks from 
sneaking across the borders!
They will ruin your country!


>
>>Why is it incumbent on Americans, and as Yelena suggested unfair,
>>if we do not make it as convienient as possible for Russians to come here?
>
>What a spelling.


You understood. 
So what?


> Anyway, what makes you think I want it made "as
>convenient as possible"? Just make it as bad as it is for Americans
>visiting Russia, not worse than that.

Americans are not responsible for Russia's bad roads, transportation
systems, low income levels and corruption and wars.
Yes I've heard it said before, the West started the Cold War 
with the peace loving Soviet Union and everything is the fault of the West,
so we, in the West, owe them for it and should make up for it.
Despite what you might want to imply, the status of Russian
citizens is *not* the same, nor should it be, as that of US citizens.
Russia is a third world country.
There are a lot of good, hard-working people from many places coming
here to the West who do *not* put forth the proposition that 
America's laws should be changed to allow more people from *their*
country to come in and have the same privileges
as do citizens. I only hear you Russians saying things like that.
Why?

>
>>The *primary* interests of America should be geared to the interests
>>of (surprise! surprise!) Americans, not  *any* foreigners who exhibit 
>>a anti-Western, anti-American bias as was rather obviously exhibited by 
>>the previous poster, "Yelena".
>
>>It is also the flavor of many of her other posts.
>
>>This was what motivated me to reply.
>
>>There is a very apparent sense of "entitlement" here,
>>and worse, as shown by her pro-Russian, anti-American
>>bias.
>
>Feel free to report on her to the Commission on the anti-American
>activities (or what is its name). BTW, I'm getting more and more
>perplexed by your writing style - do the quotes around Yelena suggest
>something I'm missing?

No and no.
You are missing something more basic in this entire discussion
oh great one.


>
>>Sorry if my taking the American view towards this has
>>in any way offended you. That was not my purpose.
>
>No, it's all right - it happens all the time. You just want to make
>all the working people free and happy and end up with labour camps. Or
>try to protect some backwards countries from the onslaught of said
>labour camps and instead almost starve these contries to death. Relax,
>shit happens.


I don't follow your Soviet/Sovok logic at all!!?


>
>>As regards your question regarding, "that hypothetical dude from
>>Magadan," who in your infinite wisdom, you have determined without
>>knowing anything about me, but do *know*, that any "hypotetical dude"
>>from some Siberian hell hole in Russia is of-course,
>>" more interesting to the US of A than," then a American citizen?!!
>
>Thanks for the compliment. As of the dude - it just takes more skills
>and guts to go from Magadan to the USA than crapping on a place a lot
>of people call their home from some shit hole in the state of NY.

Perhaps they should have put more of thier wonderful
Russian "skills and guts" into better roads, living standards,
 etc.. rather then into weaponry and Chechna etc..

Don't go there or to *any*, American "shithole" as you say.
Spare yourself and other Russians the horror of America,
this way, you won't have to demand special privlages for Russians
ahead of people from everywhere else.

>
>>Is it merely because I am *only* a American, and he is a Russian,
>>therefore, he is more important and of much more interest to America,
>>then the citizens of the country that built, support and are loyal to
>>it? 
>
>No. Next question, please. Well, OK, back to this one - see my
>rantings about the tax dollars above.
>
>>Such trash we are, and exist merely to serve Soviets.....
>
>Wake up, dude - the Soviet Union is no more, so you have to redefine
>your raison d'etre.

People of a Soviet mentality who regard themselves as equal and 
more then equal to the citizens of any country they wish to go to.

>
>>I read no discussion of this in your response to this, "Yelena's" attitude
>>towards this country.
>>I believe that speaks eloquently enough on your part.
>>You and others dislike America, yet you wish to come here and feel,
>>you and other Russians should be able to do so more easily, because it is mor
e
>>inconvienient and difficult to travel in Russia, costs more for a Russian
>>to do so and this is why America is unfair and no good from a Russian
>>point of view. That and we are not as intrinsicaly as "interesting" or as 
>>wonderful as Russians are. I can't believe the attitude!
>
>Nah. Stop torturing yourself - just get some clue through improving
>your reading skills.
>
>>Charming.
>
>>Have a good day,
>
>And you don't cough, too (as we say it in Russia).
>
>>alex
>
>Cheers
>
>Dima
>time zone changes suck
>

Here is another example of a Ex-Soviet Russian, posting from Australia, who
makes a threat to an American citizen.
Evidently, he already has or will get a visa to come to America.


Begin:

Path: 
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AU!mel.dit.csiro.
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From: LEVCHENKO Vladimir >
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian
Subject: Re: !DAN KOROLYSHYN & GEORGE RYCAR ADOPTED!
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 17:13:20 +1000
Organization: CSIRO DIT ( Melb. )
Lines: 31
Message-ID: >
References: > >
NNTP-Posting-Host: atmos.dar.csiro.au
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: > 



On 17 Jul 1996, GRycar wrote:

> Max Pizdur;
>                As usual your eloquence has no equal and your stupidity is
> only exceeded by your duplicity. More simlpy stated, you are a moron of no
> good and little talent who is destructive because you are incompetent.
> Hint, your lack of ethics and direspect for the truth is contributory to
> your stupidity.
> 
>               See Pizdur invective is not difficult to master but then I
> am not prevaricating when I question your critical acumen. It is lacking,
> try again.
> 
> 
>                                              George

That's enough, George. You lousy bastard have gone too far. First you 
moron are claiming no knowledge and comprehension of Russian, but then you 
are fiddling with Max Pyziur name with a clear aim to insult him, his 
parents and all his family, thus showing quite a good though prevaricated 
command of Russian. 
I openly notify you that during my next visit to US East coast which is 
scheduled somewhere in Spring (your Autumn, moron), I'll come in person 
to kick a shit out of you, arshole, if somebody else and Max himself not 
do it before me. I allocated time for this and put you on the waiting list.
You better go hiding NOW, you shithead bastard, if you don't want to get a 
good lesson of a decent net behaviour.

VL

 (Maria Egorov) wrote:

<ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3

<The Hungarians does not look any more Mongoloids for the same reasons the 
<Turks in Istanbul look European.

<It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their 
<roots are Mongolic.

<From Britannica :(Languages of the world)

<"Racially the Uralic people present an unhomogeneous picture.In general 
<they may be considered
<a bland of Europeans and Mongoloid types,with the more western 
<groups(especially the Hungarians,Baltic-Finnic and Erzya Mardvin groups) 
<being strongly European and those of the Urals primarily Mongoloid".

<From " De Administrado Imperio"by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Byzantine 
<Emperor,950AD)

<"These eight clans of the TURKS(Hungarians)do not obey their own 
<particular princes...,They 
<have for their first chief the prince who comes by succession of Arpad's 
<family..."
 

<From The Hungarian Chronicle(1095AD):

<"We (Hungarians) are descendants of the great Huns of Attila".

<From "The Mongols" By Jeremiah Curtin

<"Five groups of Mongols have made themselves famous in Europe:The Huns 
<with their mighty chief Attila,the Magyars,The Turks or Osmanli,the 
<Mongol invaders of Russia..."


<From "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" By Edward Gibbon.

<"The(Hungarians) are distinguished by the Greeks under the proper and 
<peculiar name of Turks,
<as descendants of that people who had conquered and reigned form China to 
<the Volga (referring to the Mongols)".

<From "The Cambridge Medieval History" edited by J.H.Hussey.

<"The form ovyypoi,from which are derived the various names current to 
<this day among the people of Europe(Old Church Slavonic,UGRI; Russian,
<VENGRI;German,UNGARN;English,HUNGARIANS;French,HONGROIS;Italian,UNGHERESI,
<and so on)comes from the Turkic ethnic name ONOGUR meaning TEN OGUR"

<From "The Thirteenth Trib" by Arthur Koestler.

<"We also hear of a fearful encounter which St.Cyril,the Apostle of the 
<Slav,had with a Magyar horde in 860,on his way to Khazaria.He was saying 
<his prayers when they rushed at him luporum more ululantes-HOWLING IN THE 
<MANNER OF WOLVES".

<From "Britannica"(Languages of the world).

<"Recent study indicates that it is posible to speak of a Uralic racial 
<type,an intermediate stage between the European and the Mongoloid,the 
<basic features of which are medium-dark to dark hair and eye colour,
<relatively small stature and often a concave bridge of the nose".
<(Hungary is part of Uralic racial type).

<From "Britanica" Hungarian.

<"The proto-Hungarians were apparently an ethnic blend of Ugric(Mongoloid) 
<and Turkish peoples living in western Siberia...The Hungarians were the 
<scourge of Europe,raiding as far afield as Bremen,Orleans and 
<Constantinople(the English word OGRE-a men eating man,hideous cruel man,
<is a corruption of HUNGAR,attests to their notoriety).


<From "1000 years of Hungary" By Emil Lengyel.

<"(Hungarian) Folklore speaks about NIMROD the giant,who had two sons,
<HUNOR and HAGAR.The former was the ancestor of the HUNS,and MAGOR was the 
<ancestor of the MAGYARS."

<"The experience the Magyars left with the Western world was so traumatic 
<that even generations later people form the West saw the Hungarians as 
<apocalyptic monsters. Bishop Otto of Freysing spoke of the exterior of 
<the Hungarians as ‘ferocious' at the time of the Crusades :(Their eyes 
<are sunken,their stature is short,their behavior wild,their language 
<barbarous,so that one can either accuse fate or marvel at divine patience 
<for having permitted these monsters the possession of an enchanting 
<land)".


<From "History of Hungary" By Denis Sinor

<"Though, geographically speaking, of European origin, the Hungarians who 
<settled in the Danube valley were,spiritually and materially, Asiatics, 
<and belonged to the great Central Euroasiatic cultural family whose 
<members lived dispersed form the Danube to China, from Persia and India 
<to the Arctic. The Hungarian bows and arrows...were of exactly the same 
<type as those used in Central Asia. As nomadic peoples generally do, the 
<Hungarians disliked towns,and even houses,to which they preferred tents. 
<According to Otto von Freisingen, as late as the middle of the twelfth 
<century, summer and autumn were still spent under tents".

<"It is, however quite certain that the Mongoloid type was well 
<represented among them(Hungarians), and that they were, on the whole, of 
<rather short stature, with short legs, bowed through continuous riding".


<There are many more credible sources like these.

Dear Hungarian readers,
	I would like to add some data, which can be interesting for some of 
you. As it is known, all Finno-Ugric languages are a subgroup to Uralo-Altaic 
group, together with the subgroup of Turkic languages, Mongolian languages, 
Korean and Japanese. Please, see 
* Grand Larousse Encyclopedique, Librarie Larousse, 1960, and also
* The New Encyclopaedia Brittanica, 15th edition, 1990, vol. 22, Macropaedia.

I want to give some more complete data (from 1980 - Enc. Britt.).
The group of Uralo-Altaic languages is divided into:
	* Uralic   - with  22,530,500 speakers
	* Altaic   - with 102,859,000 speakers,
	* Korean   - with  55,000,000 speakers,
	* Japanese - with 121,044,000 speakers.
	The Uralic and Altaic subgroups are more complex.
	Uralic languages are divided into:
		* Finno-Ungic - with 22,494,600  speakers,
		* Samoyedic   - with     35,900 speakers.
		From them Finno-Ugric languages are divided into:
			* Finnic - with   8,473,000 speakers,
			* Ugric  - with  14,021,600 speakers.
	Altaic languages are divided into:
		* Turkic -    with 97,958,000 speakers,
		* Mongolian - with  4,901,000 speakers.

Let now see the subgroups in more details.
	
    
Finnic (->from Finno-Ugric ->from Uralic ->from Uralo-Altaic):
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Finnish  - with 5,000,000 speakers,
* Estonian - with 1,000,000 speakers,
* Karelian - with    86,000 speakers,
* Veps     - with     8,000 speakers,
* Ingrian  - with     1,000 speakers,
* Votic    - with     1,000 speakers,
* Livonian - with       500 speakers,
* Lapp     - with    30,000 speakers,
* Merya    - with less than 500 speakers,
* Menshcher- with less than 500 speakers,
* Murom    - with less than 500 speakers,
* Mordvin  - with   900,000 speakers,
* Mari     - with   570,000 speakers,
* Udmurt   - with   590,000 speakers,
* Komi     - with   285,000 speakers.
> -----------------------------------------
          Total - 8,473,000 speakers.

Ugric (->from Finno-Ugric ->from Uralic ->from Uralo-Altaic):
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Hungarian - with 14,000,000 speakers,
* Mansi     - with      7,600 speakers,
* Khant     - with     14,000 speakers.
> -----------------------------------------
           Total - 14,021,600  speakers.

Samoyedic (->from Uralic ->from Uralo-Altaic):
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Nenets   - with 28,000 speakers,
* Enets    - with less than 500 speakers,
* Nganasan - with    900 speakers,
* Selkup   - with  3,500 speakers,
* Kamas    - with less than 500 speakers,
* Karagas  - with less than 500 speakers,
* Koibal   - with less than 500 speakers,
* Motor    - with less than 500 speakers,
* Soyot    - with less than 500 speakers,
* Taigi    - with less than 500 speakers.
> -----------------------------------------
           Total - 35,900  speakers.

Turkic (->from Altaic ->from Uralo-Altaic):
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Common Turkic Languages (z-Turkic):
    South East (Uighur or Chagatai) Group:
* Uzbek        - with 14,322,000 speakers,
* Uighur       - with  5,757,000 speakers.
    South West (Oguz or Turkmen) Group:
* Turkish      - with 42,204,000 speakers,
* Azerbaijani  - with 12,150,000 speakers,
* Turkmen      - with  3,363,000 speakers,
* Gagauz       - with    162,000 speakers.
    North West (Kipchak) Group:
* Karaim       - with      6,000 speakers,
* Kimyak       - with    226,000 speakers,
* Karachay-Balkar - with 129,000 speakers,
* Tatar        - with  5,542,000 speakers,
* Bashkir      - with    928,000 speakers,
* Kazakh       - with  7,545,000 speakers,
* Kara-Kalpak  - with    311,000 speakers,
* Kirgiz       - with  2,116,000 speakers,
* Nogay        - with     55,000 speakers.
   North East (Siberian or Altai) Group:
* Khakass      - with     57,000 speakers,
* Altai        - with     45,000 speakers,
* Tuvinian     - with    187,000 speakers,
* Yakut        - with    316,000 speakers,
* Khalaj       - with     25,000 speakers.
r-Turkic Languages:
* Chuvash      - with  1,445,000 speakers,
* Bulgar - now dead, only some words can be found in modern Bulgarian, which 
           is Slavic language, from Indo-European group.
> -----------------------------------------
           Total -     97,958,000  speakers.

Mongolian (->from Altaic ->from Uralo-Altaic):
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Western Group:
* Kalmik          - with   135,000 speakers,
* Oyrat           - with   159,000 speakers, 
* Mongol (western)- with    50,000 speakers.
Eastern Group:
* Mongolian       - with 3,775,000 speakers,
* Buryat          - with   358,000 speakers,
* Daghur          - with    72,000 speakers,
* Monguor         - with    93,000 speakers,
* Santa           - with   259,000 speakers
> -----------------------------------------
              Total -    4,901,000  speakers.

						Regards: Plamen

On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 06:55:25 GMT,  (AND Books)
wrote:

>Italian Autodidact ) wrote:
>
>: Hi, I'm posting this article from Italy.
>
>: I've just started learning  Hungarian as an auotdidact
>: and I would like someone in this Newsgroup to help me 
>: with the following:
>
>: Sajnos kave nincs / sajnos kavet nincs


Ladies and Gentlemen:

I think we can call the mission accomplished: 'achilles' must be (by
now) thoroughly confused.

Congratulations to us all for a job well done! :-))))

Ci vediamo,

Rozsa Bandi
> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 < OR >          
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.            
> =============================================================

In article >, 
 (Gyorgy Kovacs) wrote:
>In article >,
>Lacko/Kohn > wrote:
>>
>> My instinct says:
>>
>>Sajnos, nincsen kavet.
>>
>>If you want to say: I'm sorry, I don't have coffee.
>>
>>Margarita

>
>
>That is incorrect. If you want to say: "Sorry, I don't have coffee" than the
>following versions are correct and used:
>Sajnos nincs ka've'm. (the ' stands for an accent on top of the preceding
>vowel)
>Sajnos ka've'm nincs. (This stresses that I have other stuff but no coffee)
>

Wouldn't "ka've'm" mean "my coffee"?

I agree that my instinct (above) is not correct. Drop the t in kave.
Just for the records, my hungarian is what I learn from my parents as a child. 
I didn't learn how to write.

Margarita

Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>Ez csodalatos, hogyan sikerult Nemenyinek elerni, hogy a Petofiben interjut 
>keszitsenek vele?

Mibol gondolod, hogy Nemenyi erte azt el? Nekem inkabb az volt a
benyomasom, hogy ot ertek el a radiotol.  Persze nem csodalkoznek, ha
azota azt a radiost is javaban furnak ugyanazok a "busy body"-k, akik
Nemenyit is megfurtak.

PJ

> Still trying to sidetrack the issue?  Pathetic.
No. You can have the last word on irredentism. In fact I collected the 
Jewish sidetrack of our discussion into this separate posting, so that 
you can follow it as a separate thread or abandon this whole issue.

> > Indeed. The standard term for an antisemitic Jew is "self-hating Jew", a
> > moniker awarded with significant frequency.
> Where would I find that standard definition?  In a Tom Wolfe book?
Tom Wolfe is a very sharp-eyed observer of American life but I haven't seen
him reporting on Jewish stuff. Try usenet, that fountainhead of wisdom we all
so much delight in enriching and getting enrichment from.  Post a query on
s.c.jewish and see what you get. Post two queries if you will, one about the
term "self-hating Jew" and one about the general question whether people who
themselves are Jewish or who have Jewish relatives can be antisemitic. 

> I had the impression that the self-hating Jew syndrom was something
> psychological, having to do with overbearing Jewish mothers. ;-)
Naah, except in the sense that an overbearing mother or a nagging wife can
push one towards antisemitism if one reacts to such a push. Rumor has it a
famous net.multiple.personality of the Hungarian ultraright in silicon valley
was once married to a Jewish woman, maybe for him that was the last straw.

> And you are not psychoanalyzing others again?  Where have you seen any post
> from  me in support of MIEP?  Considering that I don't know anybody from MIEP
> and don't get any of their publications, being their spokesperson is quite a
> remarkable achievement from me.
It is a remarkable achievement, though I never supposed that you got your
instructions from Csurka in the fieldkeeper's hut, or that you get your
opinions from Magyar Fo1rum, Demokrata, or from the equally right-wing emigre
papers. They are, as far as I can see, your very own opinions. Five years ago
(i.e. before Antall kicked Csurka out of MDF) I wrote the following:
"Ke1tse1gtelen hogy Pannon saja1tfrekvencia1i ko2zel esnek az MDF pengette
hu1rok rezge1ssza1maihoz, de ez me1g nem ege1szen az mint ko2vetni a hivatalos
vonalat." (There is no doubt that Pannon's eigenfrequencies are close to the
frequencies of the strings played by MDF, but this is not exactly the same as
following their official line). I stand by that assessment. You could write
something similar about me vis a vis the SZDSZ, though the achievent is
lessened by the fact that I know people there and I read the liberal press. 

> As if I cared what those two guys had to say about Csoori.  Come to think of
> it, it's been a long time I cared for Csoori, either. 
This is interesting. May I ask why? 

> Your "leftishness" better be decided by the readers of your posts.
Agreed. In this particular thread I appear as a defender of what you call the
"Ka1da1r Jugend", which is necessarily a leftish position. But ask me about
more relevant issues (because this whole business of what happened before 1989
already faded into irrelevancy) e.g. about the policies I support, and you
will find that I'm in fact a staunch right-winger when it comes to economic
policy, and something of a conservative liberal on social issues. 

> You are better judge of your Jewishness, though your denial made me
> wonder when you wrote recently in the HUNGARY list something to the effect
> that your Jewishness was a complex issue of which you did not want to talk.
> Not that I care, mind you, but that did strike me as somewhat incongruous
> with your previous statements.
It's OK, leave the worrying about the incongruity to me. 

> > "Jewish (or mostly Jewish)" was a direct quote from your preceding post. If
> > you insist, I can also dig stuff out from the HUNGARY archives. I say let's
> > try to discuss the matter without bringing Jews and antisemitism in.
> I insist!  You brought the issue of Jews into the discussion, so don't
> weezel out now before you deliver the proof. 
Well if you insist, let me note that you bought the issue of Jews up, right
there in your very first posting on the Ka1da1r Jugend. Here is the quote: 
| When that fails, they also manage somehow to throw in the the red herring of
| anti-semitism. 
I guess you subscribe to the philosophy that offense is the best defense. 
We can abandon the topic altogether, it's up to you. 

> As I know, Szendi was a gendarme charged to accompany Jewish deportees to
> the embarking points.  I don't know if he killed any of them, or even if he
> knew what fate awaited for them.  I doubt most Jews knew.  What I do know
> that OSI, after considerable legal harrassment offered Szendi two choices:
> financial ruin through legal expenses, or "voluntary" return to Hungary.
> He chose the latter.  Ever since the Demianiuk case, OSI lost a lot of
> credibility.
Why did Szendi chose "voluntary" return if he was right? I understand NPA also
chose "voluntary" resignation, but claims he is right. Sorry guys, they can't
have it both ways. If truth is on your side, you gotta follow through the
legal system and get acquitted, just as Demianiuk did. Hell, it is worth doing 
even if truth is *not* on your side but the evidence aganst you is not strong 
enough to convict beyond reasonable doubt. 

> That may have been after the negative publicity for the trial itself, well
> after OSI's questionable methods became known.
What is OSI? 

Andra1s Kornai

In article >,  () wrote:
>Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>>
>>Ez csodalatos, hogyan sikerult Nemenyinek elerni, hogy a Petofiben interjut 
>>keszitsenek vele?
>
>Mibol gondolod, hogy Nemenyi erte azt el? Nekem inkabb az volt a
>benyomasom, hogy ot ertek el a radiotol.  Persze nem csodalkoznek, ha
>azota azt a radiost is javaban furnak ugyanazok a "busy body"-k, akik
>Nemenyit is megfurtak.
>
>PJ
Valoban? Sajatos szelektiv naivitas ez. 

Szoval a radiot ugy kell elkepzelni mint aki orkodik az igazsag az egyenloseg 
es mas hasonlo magasztos eszmek oldalan, es most talalta ezt a kirivo esetet, 
egy artatlan ember porbatiprasat egy demokratikusnak mondott orszagban, hat mi 
sem termeszetesebb, hogy ez musorba valo.
Jo hogy van ilyen intezmeny! Jo hogy van aki vigyaz rank, aggodik ertunk. Jo 
hogy van aki megmutatja, hol tortennek az igazi, nagy igazsagtalansagok.
Nagy muveszet a sok eset kozul kivalasztani a tipikust, azt a megrazo ereju 
peldat, amely meltan erdemli meg mindannyiunk figyelmet...(es bla, es bla, es 
blablablabla...)

Eszembe jut az a masik eset amikor a radio interjukat keszitett olyan 
"uzletemberekkel" (Beremenyi utan) akik egymas utani harom heten nyertek otost 
a lotton. A dolog addig tartott amig valaki beszolt, hogy talan megsem kellene 
ennyire reklamozni az adocsalokat. (Mindenki meg volt lepve...)


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Into different cultures?  Knowing more about the people?  I am.

I found AsiaWest FRIENDS at http://www.asia-west-friends.com/

Interesting and the ladies come from a wide ethnic and socio-economic backgroun
d.

Take a look.

James

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:

> Eggs and sperms are NOT human beings. Human life begins at the moment 
> WHEN the female egg meets the sperm!

  Really??  And what is the source you are gathering this information
  from??  The actual definition of life is quite subjective (since you are 
  such a great fan of subjectivism)....human life starts with appearance
  of  self-consciousness...
  Everything before that is molecular biology on a higher level.


  j.nail

In article > Maria Egorov,
 writes:
>Hungarians disliked towns,and even houses,to which they preferred tents. 
>According to Otto von Freisingen, as late as the middle of the twelfth 
>century, summer and autumn were still spent under tents".

Just compare a house of that time with a jurta, the tent of the 
nomads. The difference in the level of comfort is astonishing
to the favour of the tent. Travellers described the 'house'
in which the contemporary europians lived in central europe.
Actually was a dark, dirty mudhole. Even the 'noble' class who
lived in such stone houses which had no window and heating.
Also till the late middle age they did not have permanent staires
in their 'castles', they used ladders instead...
If you confer this with the Europian's elemental hate of water
contacting their skin, you  will know why the Hungarian felt
a dislike to move in the houses of the despised Europians.

Tamás

I want to give a small comparison of Uralic languages - Proto-Uralic 
(reconstructed), Finnish <suomi> and Estonian <eesti> (both Baltic Finnic), 
Lapp <sabme> (together with the first two - to the subgroup of North Finnic), 
Mari <mari> - singular in the Finnic subgroup, Komi <komi> - Permic Finnic, 
Khant <khanty> - Ob-Ugric, Hungarian <magyar> (both with Khant - Ugric), and 
Nenets <hasawa> - Samoyedic. I am sorry, but my computer has not Umlauts.
	Each entry begins with the reconstructed Proto-Uralic form. 
	For more - please, see The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 22, 
Macropaedia, 15th edition, 1990.

ukte (one) - yhte <suomi> - uht <eesti> - okta <sabme> - ikte <mari> - 
	utik <komi> - it <khanty> - egy <magyar>

kakte (two) - kahte <suomi> - kaht <eesti> - guokte <sabme> - kok <mari> - 
	kyk <komi> - kat <khanty> - ket <magyar>

kolm (three) - kolme <suomi> - kolm <eesti> - golbma <sabme> - kum <mari> - 
	kujim <komi> - kolum <khanty> - harom <magyar>

nelja (four) -  nelja <suomi> - neli <eesti> - njaellje <sabme> - nyl <mari>-
	nol <komi> - nula <khanty> - negy <magyar>

pane (head, end) -  paa <suomi> - pea <eesti> - pom <komi> - fei <magyar> - 
	pa- <hasawa>

jane (ice) - jaa <suomi> - jaa <eesti> - jiegna <sabme> - ij <mari> - 
	ji <komi> - jonk <khanty> - jeg <magyar>

puve (tree) -  puu <suomi> - puu <eesti> - pu <mari> - pu <komi> - 
	fa <magyar> - pa <hasawa>

kala (fish) -  kala <suomi> - kala <eesti> - guole <sabme> - kol <mari> - 
	kul <khanty> - hal <magyar> - xala <hasawa>

kota (house, hut) -  kota <suomi> - koda <eesti> - goatte <sabme> - 
	kudo <mari> - ka <komi> - kat <khanty> - haz <magyar>

ken (who) -  ken <suomi> - ke <eesti> - gi <sabme> - ke <mari> - 
	kin <komi> - kot <khanty> - kez <magyar>

silma (eye) - silma <suomi> - silm <eesti> - calbme <sabme> - sinca <mari> - 
	sin <komi> - sem <khanty> - szem <magyar> - sew <hasawa>

sudam (heart) - sydam <suomi> - sudam <eesti> - caddam <sabme> - sum <mari> - 
	sulenn <komi> - sum <khanty> - sziv <magyar> - sej <hasawa>

sone (vein) - suoni <suomi> - soon <eesti> - suodna <sabme> - son <mari> - 
	sun <komi> - jan <khanty> - in <magyar> - ten <hasawa>

sule (lap) - syli <suomi> - suli <eesti> - salla <sabme> - sul <mari> - 
	syl <komi> - jol <khanty> - ol <magyar> 

mene- (go) - men- <suomi> - min- <eesti> - manna- <sabme> - mija- <mari> - 
	mun- <komi> - mun- <khanty> - men- <magyar> - min- <hasawa>

amta- (give) - anta- <suomi> - anda- <eesti> - vuowde- <sabme> - 
	omta- <mari> - ud- <komi> - ontas <khanty> - ad <magyar>

tumte- (know) - tunte- <suomi> - tunde- <eesti> - dowda- <sabme> - 
	tud <komi> - tud <magyar>
					Regards: Plamen

P.S. I want to excuse, that I have followed up the posting of Maria Egorov 
"Are Hungarians Mongols", without knowing the author. After that I have 
obtained E-mail responds from some readers of this group. I have checked 
in the Usenet archive using Deya Search Machine what was written by Maria 
Egorov in soc.culture.magyar and soc.culture.italian, and I am amazed.

In article > Joan Carles Azkoitia,
 writes:
>You said, talking about Germans, that they were the ARYAN nations. Sorry?
>I thought the one and only Aryan were the Iranian peoples.
>Don't fall in the same stupid pretension as Hitler did. 

But they are Aryan, as possibly you are as well. This is the
old and obsolete name of the Indo-Europian language-group.
In US terminology: Caucasian. The name itself could have
been used if Hitler had not given to it that ugly connotation.

Tamás

Gabe Bokor wrote:
> 
> > I've just started learning  Hungarian as an auotdidact
> > and I would like someone in this Newsgroup to help me
> > with the following:
> >
> > Sajnos kave nincs / sajnos kavet nincs
> >
> > Which of the two sentences is correct??
> 
> The correct sentence is "sajnos kávé nincs" -- nominative.
> Kávét is accusative (direct object).
> 
> GabeGabe!!

The hack with the coffee! How did you manage to write the accented 
letters? 

Jo'zsi Hill (Udvarhelyi)

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I have a few russian friends, some are good and some are bad. Most are
hard working, model citizens. They are generally not into doing many of
the things that US Americans do that are illegal. Most seem to honestly
want to work hard, make some money, become american citizens and enrich
the US. I work with a few at where I work. They are the cleaning crew,
also they work in th eproduce department. One of my friends is a pilot for
one of the local airlines (he used to fly AN-2s for Aeroflot in siberia)..
One is a computer hacker/cracker (he is still young, but he works hard).
I at times wish I had more people working for me who worked as hard as
they do. I am an Assitant Manager at the local Burger King, yes not an
exciting/glamourous job, but I have to deal with mostly american juviniles
and their problems/hormones/attitudes. 

And yes I know one lazy russian, who came to america for welfare, and he
is in jail for attempted rape/aggrevated assault, I wish they would deport
him back to Russia, they are less willing to put up with his attitude than
we are.

Morgoth

Friend to all who come to the earth!

Dear MEgorov,

I was just wondering,  what is your point with all 
these discussions on hungarian issues.

Why do you have a missions to identify hungarians
as mongols?   Why it is so important?
What is your problem with the hungarian jews?

To raise and intentionally misinterpret ethnical and
race issues is a very dangerous thing.

I was in Angola (1991-2), Somalia(1993),
Lebanon-Israel(1993-1994), Rwanda (1995)
Croatia (several times 1993-1995) etc.

It was very sad to see the fighting, all the half-open
massgraves, dogs playing with human bones etc.
All these conflicts were based on racial/ethnical issues.
Proving that one race is superior to the other, by killing
each other, killing children and mothers............
That's what you want? 

Do you want to prove that we are an inferior race and
we never learned to be Europeans? 
And therefore your missions is to keep clean Europe
from the hungarians?
Do you want to construct new gas chambers for us or 
simple use sticks and stones like Pol Pot in Cambodia?
 
God Bless You
zoltan-

On Thu, 4 Jul 1996, Ivan Marinov wrote:

> God.
> Yes, it's God.
> Making something bad is not an act that is in harmony with God.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Ivan


  Please excuse I.Marinov.
  The child lacks a little constructive thought, and 
  seems profoundly confused in his perceptions.
  Perhaps some of you could show a little patience and
  ignore or at least treat with benevolence his confused
  thoughts.
  We all pass certain stages of mental development, in search
  for the SELF.




  j.nail

Jean Nail wrote:
> 
> On 16 Jul 1996, Christine wrote:
> 
> > It (at least) DEVELOPS into a human being.  But that baby can never be
> > born
> > and do great things if it's kill just because a woman can't take
> > responsibilty
> > for spreading her legs.
> >
> > Christine
> 


>   The baby would most probably NOT do great things, if it ends up in
>   an orphanage, or is brought up with parents who never wanted him/her
>   in the first place.
>   Ever wonder why our society is poluted with so many people filled with
>   hatred and frustration??  Ever wondered why there are so many people
>   with mental problems....And all those mass murderers, ever checked
>   the families they come from?? -- Well a lot of them don't have such.
>   Psychos and murderers are rather closer to being animals, then humans.
>   The difference is the margin of intelectual potential (most of which
>   is not utilized at all).
>   One thing is giving birth to a being, another is CREATING a HUMAN being.
> 
> 
>   j.nail

Dear j:

Ever notice how these anti-choice idiots want pregnancy to be a 
punishment to a woman who "spreads her legs?"  They view sex as a 
promiscuous and immoral act unless it is for procreational reasons only.

Fact is *ANY* form of birth control prevents "it" from developing into a 
human being.  The pill I take every night is doing immeasurable damage to 
"human potential."

Sorry, but my belief is that making love is a great recreational 
activity; and if my birth control fails, I'm happy I would have the 
CHOICE of abortion as a backup.  And in our *FREE* country, founded on 
the basis of separation of church and state, we are entitled to our 
beliefs without interference from those who believe differently!

Love, 
Lindsey
CHOICE!!

P.S.  I have info on abortion drugs (dosages, etc.) that can be 
prescribed by any physician if anyone's interested.

Bismillah-ar-rahman-nir-rahim!

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> They "grudgingly tolerated him", you say.  That's the kind of
> characterization that must be a frequent claim these days.  In the absence 
> of evidence, I take such claims as self-serving.
What evidence you'd like, pray tell? You were not present, nor do you seem
to have any friends among Hungarian economists, so how could you know? 

> Thanks for the plug of his works.  As you may recall from an earlier flame
> war on that subject, I came across some of those books in a library before I
> even knew about you, and I had the impression that I was reading a book from
> a Kadar loyalist.  As I recall, even Istvan Kertesz (RIP), otherwise no
> friend of mine, had the same opinion.  So thanks but no thanks.  
Ignorance is strength, no question about it. On this one, you really need to
preserve all the strength you have. 

> Besides, the last thing I want is somebody explaining me with the jargon of
> the "dismal science" what the socialist system was/is like.  I experienced
> enough of it first hand.  
You also experienced the weather and the stars in the night sky. Doesn't mean
you understand anything about the laws that govern these phenomena.

> Why don't you recommend those books to some Ivory 
> Tower type Westerners instead? 
Thanks for the plug, I do.

> In the context we're talking about, the term "fleeing" is usually reserved 
> for "refugees" who leave their home country illegally mainly because they
> (...) why should he have chosen to be a refugee in an case?
I never said he was a refugee or an emigre, in fact I haven't discussed him at
all in this context, I was talking about some of the "Ka1da1r Jugend".  All
this started with my wish to avoid the ugly term "disszidens" which you would
have no doubt pounced upon, and translating the term as "emigrant" (less
dramatic than "refugee", to be sure, and without an implication of having been
persecuted). You are one, and so are many you call "Ka1da1r Jugend". 

> And with regards to Balczo ...
> >Just because he did some rather unsavory things since?
> Like what? 
I only remember vaguely, it was something at the height of the Csurka 
offensive, some six years ago. Will dig it out if you insist, but it might 
take me a month or two.  

> That's very cavalier of you to admit that sometimes uniquely talented
> people did succeed despite of the hurdles they had to face.  These people
> then often had to act as the "right hand" men of the less talented, but
> politically promoted bosses.  Some level playing field!
Being a "strohmann" is not what I meant by succeeding. What you are talking
about was typical in the fifties, rare in the sixties, and almost totally
unheard of in the seventies and the eighties. By succeeding I mean succeeding
under one's own name. 

> Well, there is an interesting story behind that deal.
> Pozsgay, the leading reform communist minister of the time (...)
> However, the opposition centering around Antall's MDF was not privy 
So how come Pozsgay was the sweetheart of the MDF, they even wanted to make
him President? Remember "aki magyar otthon marad"? MDF opposed the "four times
yes" plebiscite and called on its members to boycott it precisely because it
cut Pozsgay out. Now you tell me Pozsgay witheld all this critical information
from Antall, yet MDF continued to push for the guy. Ah, if only they knew they
had a serpent on their bosom! 

It is remarkable that after all these years there is still no MDF politician
who criticized Pozsgay for this duplicitous behavior (or for anything else --
as far as MDF is concerned he is the best thing since slice bread) and even
more remarkable that the most powerful socialist politician in MDF's favor is
Ma1tya1s Szu3ro2s, a long-time comrade and camp-follower of Pozsgay. 

> Was Hajdu elected as an individual candidate, or on the Party list?
Actually he was elected as an individual candidate. 

> And ... I am not denying the legitimacy of the Parliament, but I think it
> has a major flaw due to most members being elected on a Party list, rather
> than as individual candidates.  I could list some other flaws, but let this
> suffice for now.
I don't know, people don't seem to complain too much about it. Again this was 
hammered out at the round table negotiations you speak of, with Antall on one 
side and the duplicitous Pozsgay on the other.

> > In fact the greatest strength of the Ka1da1r-regime was that it spread
> > wealth and power rather broadly, so that actually a large number of people
> > (including the insanely numerous government employees and workers of favore
d
> > industries like steel) benefited.
> I'm glad to see such a ringing endorsement of that regime by you!
> In true Kadar Jugend fashion!
A ringing endorsement? That they shared the wealth and power rather broadly?
Remember I'm an elitist, not much in favor of the overwhelming equalization
practiced by Ka1da1r (and practiced with even greater vigor by the more
repressive leaders, who pushed up just a tiny cohort but pushed the whole
middle class down). Or that they had insanely many government employees?  Or
that they had the stupid industrial policy of subsidizing dying rust-belt
industries (because steel workers were seen as the epitome of the proletariat,
and this was supposed to be a state of for and by the proletariat) instead of
supporting more forward-looking stuff? I don't exactly see this as a ringing
endorsement.

> > Those who did not make their compromises and were in fact marginalized you
> > seem to hate with a special passion.
> Only in your own perverted mind.
Really. Please name some people from the seventies and eighties who were at
that time marginalized, but you approve of them, or even see them as leading
moral forces of the period, the Hungarian equivalents of Walensa in Poland or
Havel in CS. Surely not Gyo2rgy Konra1d, Ja1nos Kis, or La1szlo1 Rajk Jr.? 
Heck, Rajk is not even Ka1da1r Jugend, he is Ra1kosi Jugend! Peto3 is always
claimed to be the son of some communist victim of 56, Bauer's father actually
was an A1VH officer, so where does that leave you? 

> > The Czech model was appropriate for Czechoslovakia 1990 as it would have
> > been appropriate for Hungary 1966 (which is the time frame you seem to have
> > frozen into) but it wasn't appropriate for Hungary 1990.
> Oh, I see.  In other words, the Hungarian communists should be allowed to
> enjoy the fruits of their "labor", because they smartly loosened up some
> 30 years after '56.  Heck, the Czechs might have done it, too, some 30 years
> after '68. 
They by no means started loosening up in 1986, which is what you are saying,
they started it with the amnesty in 1961. By 1971 the country was considerably
looser than in 61, and again considerably looser in 81 than in 71. Had the
Czech communists done the same thing in the two decades following 1968, they
would have generated far less public resentment and would probably have been
able to keep a far bigger share of political power than they were capable of
keeping after 1989. 

> Sure, sure.  After the type of coverage Z-T got ...  Besides, it was decided
> by the High Court, not by popular vote. The two are not necessarily the same.
 
You will no doubt be delighted to see what Iva1n Peto3 has got to say about
this in his latest interview with Magyar Narancs. Quoting from memory: "SZDSZ
realized in 1993 that Hungarian society does not view MSZP through the
perspective of the various injustices of the Ka1da1r-era". MIE1P has still 
not come to this realization, and this goes a long way towards explaining their
 
standing in the polls. 

> > Brutus already decided I was the enemy even before I dared to stop that
> > gallopping hobby horse of yours, and I doubt he will agree with me on
> > anything.
> And you don't psychoanalyze others, huh?
Well I stand corrected. He himself told me that he would stop viewing me 
as the enemy as soon as I saw the light and went over to his side. Really,
the guy is quite open-minded!-)

> Why are you using the word "retribution" when I always made the point to
> avoid it?  As to "retribution" for WW I, I've no idea what you are talking
> about.  As to WW II, that was already done.  So why would that be still an
> issue?  What wasn't done is "justice" for the almost 40 years of Communism.
Please explain how this retribution-free justice could/should be administered.
You yourself spoke of "light retribution" in describing the Z-T proposal, now
it sounds as if you have something even "lighter" in mind, or do you?

> I was talking about the salami tactics against the national ("nep-nemzeti")
> right, where the main slicer was the SZDSZ and its allies.
Well, you'll have to be a bit more specific. Salami tactics in the bad old
days involved infiltrating the parties in question and gradually forcing their
true leaders out in favor of those willing to collaborate with the communists.
Are you suggesting that there are hidden SZDSZ agents working to that end in
any of the "ne1p-nemzeti" parties? It seems to me that the only issue dividing
the right is whether to include or exclude Torgya1n, in current codewords
whether a "National Alliance" or a "Civic Alliance" is more desirable -- MDF
split over that issue, with the "labanc" wing departing. 

Andra1s Kornai

In article > Plamen Malinov, 
writes:
>pane (head, end) -  paa <suomi> - pea <eesti> - pom <komi>
>- fei <magyar> - 

fej

>sone (vein) - suoni <suomi> - soon <eesti> - suodna <sabme> - son <mari> - 
>	sun <komi> - jan <khanty>
>- in <magyar>

ér (e'r). The 'in' means tendon, and also a finno-ugric word.

It is a nice collection, I like it, I saved it.  :-)

Tamas

In article >,
ANDREW ROZSA > wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Jul 1996 06:55:25 GMT,  (AND Books)
>wrote:
>
>>Italian Autodidact ) wrote:
>>
>>: Hi, I'm posting this article from Italy.
>>
>>: I've just started learning  Hungarian as an auotdidact
>>: and I would like someone in this Newsgroup to help me
>>: with the following:
>>
>>: Sajnos kave nincs / sajnos kavet nincs
>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
>I think we can call the mission accomplished: 'achilles' must be (by
>now) thoroughly confused.
>
>Congratulations to us all for a job well done! :-))))
>
>Ci vediamo,
>
>Rozsa Bandi

To dismiss confusion:
The good version of the two is 'Sajnos kave nincs', and it means 'Unfortunately
there is no coffee'
GK

In article >,
Lacko/Kohn > wrote:
>
>Wouldn't "ka've'm" mean "my coffee"?
>Margarita

By itself it does. But in the discussed structure it means that: my coffee does
not exist = I don't have any coffee
GK

Christine wrote:
> 
>  (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> >Ivan Marinov  > wrote:
> >>Peter Szaszvari wrote:
> >
> >>> And furthermore: we cannot kill an embryo because it is not an
> >>> independent being. (HAHAHA)
> >>
> >>Stop this nonsense! Embryo is a human being, period.
> >
> >Stop your bullshit.  An embryo is not and never has been considered to
> >be a human being.
> >
> >--
> >Ray Fischer
> 
> 
> It (at least) DEVELOPS into a human being.  But that baby can never be
> born
> and do great things if it's kill just because a woman can't take
> responsibilty
> for spreading her legs.
> 
> Christine

Hey Christine,

How often do you "spread your legs" (assuming you are prepared to become 
pregnant each and every time you DO IT!)?

Fucking is fun!!

Love, 
Lindsey
CHOICE!!

>
>                            HUNS-MONGOLS TO MEGOROV
>                                       
>   From:  (zed- from bangkok, thailand)
>   Reply to: zed- from bangkok, thailand
>   Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 01:57:59 GMT
>   Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016
>   Newsgroups:
>          soc.culture.magyar
>   Reply to: newsgroup(s)
>
>Dear MEgorov,
>
>I was just wondering,  what is your point with all
>these discussions on hungarian issues.
>
>Why do you have a missions to identify hungarians
>as mongols?   Why it is so important?
>What is your problem with the hungarian jews?
>
>To raise and intentionally misinterpret ethnical and
>race issues is a very dangerous thing.
>
>I was in Angola (1991-2), Somalia(1993),
>Lebanon-Israel(1993-1994), Rwanda (1995)
>Croatia (several times 1993-1995) etc.
>
>It was very sad to see the fighting, all the half-open
>massgraves, dogs playing with human bones etc.
>All these conflicts were based on racial/ethnical issues.
>Proving that one race is superior to the other, by killing
>each other, killing children and mothers............
>That's what you want?
>
>Do you want to prove that we are an inferior race and
>we never learned to be Europeans?
>And therefore your missions is to keep clean Europe
>from the hungarians?
>Do you want to construct new gas chambers for us or
>simple use sticks and stones like Pol Pot in Cambodia?
>
>God Bless You
>zoltan-


	Would it be possible to simply ignore this
	sorry character?  Wally Keeler had certainly
	done an admirable job at handling things --
	I find myself vacilating between feeling sorry
	for the b___ and just wanting to kick her 
	sorry posterior.

	My ex-husband had a theory -- he is a Transylvanian
	Hungarian, Maria -- that the women who complain are
	usually the ones that were left out?!  Is that your
	problem too, some devestatingly charming, intelligent
	and well endowed Hungarian turned you down? -- or in
	your case, didn't believe in a mercy fuck to keep
	you, at least, from going on a rejected woman's
	bitter verbal rampage?  

	None of these issues are relevant, nor are they a deciding
	factor for anything -- so try to get your jollies some
	other way, woman.  Yes, you did tell me I was a mean
	woman -- thought at least I will give you a reason for
	making that assumption in the first place.

	Julie -- a proud 1) Hungarian, 2) American -- in that order.

TTTTT EEEEE SSSSS TTTTT
  T   E     S       T  
  T   EEEEE SSSSS   T  
  T   E         S   T  
  T   EEEEE SSSSS   T  


PPPPP AAAAA TTTTT TTTTT EEEEE RRRR  N   N
P   P A   A   T     T   E     R   R NN  N
PPPPP AAAAA   T     T   EEEEE RRRRR N N N
P     A   A   T     T   E     R   R N  NN 
P     A   A   T     T   EEEEE R   R N   N

Box 425  Vienna, VA  22183
Copyright 1996
complimentary excerpt

> ==============================================
Tuesday, July 2, 1996
> ==============================================

1.  The Invisible Lebanese-Americans.

We know the Irish; we grew up
with the MacDougals, O'Garritys and Ginleys.
Murphy's Pub does a fine business in
Guiness Stout and Bass Ale served with lemon.
All around the country, Celtic Music Festivals
follow closely on St. Patrick's Day.  The Irish are
on TV and in the movies, as the cops, the sports
figures, the drunken neighbors of Middle America.

Italians are also quite visible on the American
scene.  One if by pasta, two if by pizza, Little Italy is a phenomenon in 
major cities across the country.  On television, Italian-American imagery 
is often used to typify blue collar workers. In the movies, they are 
gangsters with fine clothes and fancy cars,sobbing to opera while slicing 
off  your fingers.  They don't get no respect, and they all seem to talk 
funny.

Speaking of no respect, we know the Poles.
Are street fairs even allowed that don't serve
kielbasa-- I mean, are these ethnics ubiquitous or what?  While cinema 
remains indifferent to them,  Television positively hates them, offering 
a regular tribute of ridicule through programs such as Married With 
Children.  TV's borscht belt standup comics planted the Polish Joke in 
the American cultural landscape, and the Polish Joke
has been nourished there ever since.  It is the Jewish way of ridiculing 
the Poles.

Probably the Germans have it the worst though.  Not only television and 
cinema, but every form of media regularly carries Nazi this and WWII 
that, and Nazis killing Jews, Nazis killing Jews.  Additionally, the 
stereotypical psycho, a regular fixture in adolescent television and 
cinema, couldn't appear more German.  Television has gone to great 
lengths to intimidate, suppress, and depress, the ethnic German spirit, 
from early indoctrination through the teen years, when the influence 
becomes quite severe.  Media sees nothing good in Germans, meaning 
German-Americans, but rather seems to tolerate them.  And Germans are 
widespread in America, offering up to the common spirit some of our most 
unique and fascinating cultural icons, from Amish Communities to gifted 
and skilled citizens.  Again, ubiquitous.  And again, Christians, 
Methodists, with that set of common moral values so easily shared with 
the Irish, Italians, Poles.

We have to ask by now: why are they so silent?  and the Poles, why are 
they so silent?

Media's message to Blacks is repetitive, stupid, violent, and heavily 
reinforced.  Mainstream Black music is designed to guide rather than 
reflect Black culture.  Blacks display prominently in news as criminals 
involved with guns, drugs, prostitution, rape, and violent crime.  
Television prefers to show Black men more interested in white women, 
further denigrating and ridiculing Black women in society at large, 
especially in the eyes of Black men.  The ominous, disgusting O.J. 
Simpson `show` was designed as a long-running set of commericals showing 
that it is all right for Black men to `kill white chicks`, because Jews 
will save and rescue Black men, from justice if necessary.  In short, the 
crime of the year turned into a long-running commercial to present a mass 
mediated image of how well Blacks and Jews get along.

Jews have the most consistently positive, enlightening, wholesome 
presentations of any ethnic representation on television or anywhere in 
the mass media.  From the regularly broadcast gut-wrenching graphic 
trauma of WWII (staple programs on Public television nationwide)
presenting the image of Jewish victims, to the regular hype as to why 
Seinfeld is such intellectually clever comedy, media
never has anything more nasty to say about Jews than is said by Woody 
Allen, a media Jew whose idea of a bad Jew is one who eats greasy pork 
chops.  Media portrays Jews, and only Jews, as middle class American 
heroes, eating hot dogs and rooting for the New York Yankees, showing 
kindness to their families and their fellow Man, and being religious, 
faithful and true.

To ride the curve from the most prominent ethnic images in American media 
to the images that are least visible, we cascade through portrayals of
stupid Chinese, bound by superstition and ritual, to the nearsighted 
Swede, lilting along in a clearly exaggerated ridicule of accent, the 
spiritually misguided American Indian, the Mexican dust-eaters, and other 
negative smatterings of ethnic diversity.

The image of the Lebanese is an image of foreign Arabs, suggesting that 
Arabs are foreign to America as well as hostile, along with the 
well-documented host of negative imagery associated with Arabs in
American media.  Even after fifteen years of civil war, American media 
was unable to produce even one ethnic Lebanese national news commentator.
For national and international news coverage, and especially noticeable, 
for American news coverage of the Mideast, there simply are no ethnic
Arab-Americans.  There are Arab foreigners, but no Arab Americans.

Not that Lebanese care to be ridiculed any more than already proposed by 
Jewish media.    But in the realm of mass mediated information -- the 
news
about your world from your most trusted source-- the absence of 
Lebanese-Amerian newspersons for national and international news 
reporting
from the Mideast, even during 15 years of Lebanese strife, was peculiar. 
 Lebanese-Americans are most regularly the loudest complainers about the
level of U.S. aid to Israel, the total cost of which has skyrocketed well 
beyond the costs of any other American military involvement in American
history.  Yet the entire Lebanese-American ethnic population, with roots 
going back now for many generations in the United States, were seemingly 
not able to muster as many as one native journalist willing to cover 
those issues.  Not one appeared to be interested.  Yet thinking on these 
issues
has been rampant in the Lebanese-American community.  These ethnic 
Lebanese Americans are totally absent from the debate on the most 
expensive foreign policy issue in American history, mostly because those 
who dared to speak out were harassed, intimnidated, and ruined into 
silence by nasty little groups of Israel-supported American Jews who saw 
waging social warfare against their fellow Americans as doing their bit 
for Israel.  But this was back in the 60s and 70s, long after medias 
audience research of the 50s painstakingly documented the characteristics 
of so many American nationalities.  As the only Arabs in America, the 
Lebanese-Americans became the main enemy, unsuspecting targets.

<<...regular, or decaf??  Hello? ...>>

Given media's ability to lavish negative imagery on other ethnics, 
perhaps the Lebanese have it good.  But the quesition that remains to be 
asked is many sided.  Why are American ethnics, from the Irish to the 
Poles to the Germans, to the Italians to the Blacks, regularly attacked 
by the media with religious and ethnic ridicule?  If American media is 
not an Israeli propaganda machine controlled by American Jews, why does 
this happen? And why are these media Jews using a set of demographically 
precise attacks on American citizens through the media?    American 
citizens have not been at war with each other since the Civil War, but 
now we have proof that American Jews are at war with many ethnic 
Americans, in order to suppress anti-Israel thinking, and to avoid real 
debate of American passionate attachment to Israel.

It has been quite plain for some time now that Israel has had a free 
reign over the apparatus of the Jewish propaganda in the United States, 
and probably other countries as well.  The dominance of Jewish influence 
in American media generally is also well-known and documented.  And if, 
as John Lennon asserted, "one and one and one is three," it is not 
difficult to see the extent of damage that Israel has brought upon 
American society in its war to dominate the resources of the United 
States to Israel's advantage.

What do these groups have in common, that they should all suffer the same 
mass-mediated ridicule?  They are all Christians, for starters.  The 
Mideast wars have become one big religious war after all.  Judaism is 
surely at war with the very threatening picture of organized Christianity 
in the United States, and so better to oppress the spirit of these people 
as best as they can be catigorized.

> -------------------------------------------

TEST PATTERN, the newsletter of American ethnic Lebanese and 
Arab-American public opinion -- media's inverted image!

The most heavily censored American political thought in the latter half 
of the twentieth century:

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That's $9.95 off the news-stand-less price!!

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The reputation of the BBC World Service is threatened by the 
restructuring
plans of BBC director general, John Birt. Should the World Service 
become
part of a larger BBC news gathering force, or should it stand alone?
The Guardian has launched a web site 
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/savebush)
where the debate can continue around the world. If you listen to the 
World
Service and want to take part in the debate, E-mail your views to


Please forward this message to anyone who might be interested in this 
debate. thank you.

Joseph U. & Sharon W. Hill wrote:
> 
> Gabe Bokor wrote:
> >

> > The correct sentence is "sajnos kávé nincs" -- nominative.
> > Kávét is accusative (direct object).
> >
> > GabeGabe!!
> 
> The hack with the coffee! How did you manage to write the accented
> letters?


I use a Mac, but it actually doesn't matter as long as both parties 
have a mailer that uses MIME encoding, such as Eudora (which I use). 
Obviously you were able to read them, which means that you can also 
generate accented characters whether you have a Mac or Windows. 
People who have non-MIME mailers received kávé as kavi. 

Üdvözlettel 

Gabe (Gábor)

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On Wed, 17 Jul 1996, Peter Szaszvari wrote:
> Ez csodalatos, hogyan sikerult Nemenyinek elerni, hogy a Petofiben interjut 
> keszitsenek vele?

 Nehany heti intenziv hecckampany csodakra kepes az erdeklodes
felkorbacsolasahoz ;-(. Az igazi kerdes nem ez, hanem: ha jogserelem erte
volna NPA-t, akkor miert nem a dontesert felelos munkaltatot cibalja
birosag ele 'wrongful dismissal' cimen ahelyett, hogy a mediaban
serenykedik es a "feljelentoin" valo peres bosszuallassal fenyeget? 
 Az a teny, hogy az amerikai birosagra sokkal kevesebb hatassal lenne az
alkotmanyra (a munkaszerzodesnek ellentmondo szamitogep-hasznalat fole
kiterjedo allitolagos vedelem forrasara) valo fals hivatkozas mint a
Petofi radio feloldalasan tajekoztatott kozonsegere, nyilvan csak mellekes
befolyassal volt a dolgok ilyeten menetere... 

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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