Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Looking for kin fold in Hungary (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: How do you say, "social worker" in Hungarian? (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: How do you say, "social worker" in Hungarian? (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
4 Poet Avenues & Streets (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Magyar (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Magyar (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
8 Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind)  1333 sor     (cikkei)
9 Moroccan Party in Washington !!!! (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: TOPO Hungarock group (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Bathory csalad ( elotte: Re: Hungarian and Sumerian (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Magyar (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Magyar (mind)  74 sor     (cikkei)
14 Ver Andras menedeklevele (1493) (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
16 *** RANDI *** #179 (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
17 Battyanyi Ferenc levele felesegehez (1526) (mind)  47 sor     (cikkei)
18 Marosvasarhelyi sorok (XV. sz. elso negyede) (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: R.O.M.A. (mind)  61 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: *** TO ALL, PLEASE READ *** (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: Poet Avenues & Streets (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Magyar (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Looking for kin fold in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>I think it was Tersa'nszki (Tersánszki) like the name of
>the Hungarian writer, Tersa'nszki Jo^zsi Jeno" (Tersánszki
>Józsi Jenő)

Maybe some US immigration officer left out the k from the name and then
they got stuck with this version???

+ - Re: How do you say, "social worker" in Hungarian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hungarian= szocialis gondozono
+ - Re: How do you say, "social worker" in Hungarian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In hungarian= szocialis gondozono
+ - Poet Avenues & Streets (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am doing a comparative study of Moscow, Dublin, London, Paris and 
Budapest. I am trying to determine which city cherishes its poets and 
writers the most by naming streets, avenues, squares, city blocks, subway 
stations, parks, etc. after their best literary authors.

In Toronto, such a consideration of naming anything after a poet or 
writer is virtually non-existent. I would like to change this by 
presenting a case in which European culture celebrates its own.

Please provide me with any names and whether it is a street, park etc.

Thank you all in advance.	 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  (J
anos Szamosfalvi) writes:
>E'n olvastam middle e's old english-t
>-- a middle english egy kicsit me'g hasonlitott a modern englishre, the 
>az old english olyan volt mint egy ma'sik nyelv.   

Ez igaz. De nem tudom, mik a datumok, hol a hatar a ME-re, meg az OE-re,
az eddig emlegetett 500 evhez kepest, talan tudod? Azt hiszem, a maganhangzo-
valtozas a magyarban is van a HB ota, de amiert sokkal tobbet valtozott azota
az angol, mint a magyar, az az eros francia hatas ugye? Hodito Vilmos stb.
-- Olivier
+ - Re: Magyar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > T. Kocsis > writes
>In article > Jun Miyamoto,
>>It's really flat and monotonical without much
>>stress. So Japanese is not for shouting or swearing.
>>Any comment?
>I've heard the same for French. [...]
>she loves English because of its plasticity for that purpose.  

Yes, English uses high pitches much more than French for a special effect
on one or a few syllables, not only in women's speech but also men (which
sounds effeminate to the French...). But Hungarian (and Finnish) are
monotonous to a French ear, or the other way, a French melody in Hungarian
is soon recognized as a strange foreign accent in Hungarian even with a good
pronounciation and stress pattern.

>If you go to the country the people speak slower
>and sing,  intonate stronger and press the words
>more inequally. 

The intonation on the stressed part of words (the beginning) and of the
important parts of the sentence is stronger in Hungarian than in French.
That is, unlike the melody patterns which are stronger in French, and
even much stronger in English.

-- Olivier
+ - Re: Magyar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (Jun Mi
yamoto) says:
>As far as 
>the intonation of the two languages are concerned, Magyar does
>resemble Japanese. It's really flat and monotonical without much
>stress. So Japanese is not for shouting or swearing.
>Any comment?

Well, Hungarian is not melodic like Italian or French, and to some 
extent characterizing it as "flat and monotonical" is accurate, but
Hungarian has a rapid-fire melody all its own. Since it's always
the first syllable that's stressed (actually perhaps one would have
to say "held longer") and since words come in various lenghts (where
in each case it is the first and first syllable only that is "stressed")
the "stressed" - "unstressed" exchange is varied at all times. Also,
it is interesting to note that Hungarian poetry can easily take 
on all the classical meters, including "hexameters," almost impossible
in English, for example, though Longfellow almost succeeded with
these in the opening lines of "Evangeline." I am, by the way, no
linguist, so these are amateur observations. However, having lived
far away from Hungary for many, many years, it is interesting that when
I hear it now during visits home, I think I can almost hear the 
music of the language as if I were a foreigner. As if I were, mind
you. Kellemes tovabbi szorakozast . . . 

Steven C. Scheer, or Scheer Istvan Csaba

"It is better to know nothing than to know what ain't so." (Josh Billings)
+ - Hungarian electronic resources FAQ (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Archive-name: hungarian-faq
Last-modified: 1995/06/22
Version: 1.00.b1
Posting-Frequency: every fifteen days

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online
1.5  Mozaik
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 
1.8  , a list for Hungarian-Americans

2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX
2.2  Other discussion groups

3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

4.      The Net in Hungary
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address

5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I know this is very long, perhaps too long for human consumption ;-).
One of the tasks for further editing is to make it more concise, perhaps 
drop some parts altogether (I'd like to hear any suggestions). You can 
search for the section titles listed above and skip what you don't want, 
and many Unix newsreaders would jump ahead to the next one with Ctrl-G 
(the format now follows the digest specification)!



 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is primarily
concerned with resources freely available netwide.


Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname
Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation marks and be sure to substitute
your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.


Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For more
detailed information, send a blank email message

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts
pertaining to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).


Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further


Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).


Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight
bit of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English,
but the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). Mozaik brings you, among other
things, reposts of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and
other sources) that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by
sending a blank email message to <mailto:> and
unsubscribe by sending one to <mailto:>. See
section 3 about searching the HIX archives.


Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>.  It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only.

Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately).  Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it).  The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>.  This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.


Subject: 1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list 

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname.  Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address.  For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY.  You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL.  SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software.  For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.


Subject: 1.8  , a list for Hungarian-Americans

 <mailto:> is a group providing rapid communication
mainly among those living in the USA with interests in Hungarian
issues (it has been created to serve the community mainly at the
University of Maryland and in its vicinity). Subscribe by
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY . (Notice that this is distinct
from the older LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus
- 'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one!)




Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. Its services,
almost exclusively in Hungarian, change frequently, so it is best to
obtain an up-to-date help file by sending a blank email message to
<mailto:>. Here's a list of what it currently offers in
email digest format:

 HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey edited in Budapest
 NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of 'Magyar Narancs'
 KEP      -- videotext news from Hungarian Television's Kepujsag
 SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
 FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
 TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
 GURU     -- computer-related questions
 RANDI    -- moderated personals; anonymous submissions possible
 VITA     -- moderated non-political discussion forum
 OTTHON   -- issues around the home
 MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
 MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, a good part in
	     English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET
	     and other sources
 HUNGARY  -- the daily digest of the Hungary listserv (see 1.7)

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high,
e.g. TIPP often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!
You ought to try targeting your audience properly in order to find
those who'd help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers
often answer to the list rather than the individual even when personal
reply is requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to
subscribe also (even though technically it's not required) instead of
just addressing a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who
reply to a post: always remember that list messages get sent to several
hundred readers, so consider personal email if the subject is not of
general interest! If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a
personal copy (Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the
addressee considerably earlier than the post distributed through the

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.


Subject: 2.2  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).



 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.


Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

 - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>; (overseas users
   please notice that the use of mirror <http://www.hungary.com/meh>;
   is requested to cut down transatlantic traffic!)

 - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this
page is in Hungarian)

 - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen,
Miskolc, Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions 

 - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary, and various home pages and pointers to
other sources.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>;. The Hungary-Online archive is
going to be available from <http://www.yak.net/>; as well, but as of
this writing that is not quite set up yet.

  A new directory server <http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; 
catalogize hierarchically the growing number of Hungarian Internet 
info sources.  There is a similar collection at

 The American Association of Young Hungarians (AAYH) has its homepage
at <http://www.jvnc.net/~kerekes/>;.

 There are some nice pictures from Hungary at 


Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a server in the States: <gopher://hix.mit.edu>. Its services
form just a subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes
useful for finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See
also Section 4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well: <gopher://hix.elte.hu>. Check
also <gopher://gopher.elte.hu> and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note
that gopher is essentially text-based (thus less satisfying than the
Web) but often faster (therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the
(Unix) 'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it
works.  This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.

 There is an electronic library at <gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/elibhu/> 
that has much Hungarian text material, including some classical poetry.



 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was next,
with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet connectivity
is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises all
academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Res. Inst. of Hung. Acad. Sci.

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs


 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial
networks/email/Internet Providers demand a separate document
('commercial.FAQ'), also see <http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.


Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact
info.  This information is also available on the following gopher:

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of
     Sciences;Lagymanyosi ut 11;1111 Budapest
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor
     Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             



 This information is also available on

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) 
 - email gateways between the different email systems above 
 - distribution services (LISTSERV, news) 
 - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW servers, data bases) 
 - directory services (X.500) 
 - individual accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: > 
Network management: >


Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary
Net (2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know whom to
reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to Usenet;
please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in particular
avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise your
misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).


Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest

Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest

Members of the Szeged University Association

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs

University of Veszprem

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following:

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 - by <gopher://hix.elte.hu> (or <gopher://hix.mit.edu>, outside
Hungary; the same service is offered by <http://hix.mit.edu>; on the
World Wide Web). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 Note, however, that most parts of RaDir are badly out of date.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
Usenet's soc.culture.magyar, Bitnet's HUNGARY discussion list (section
1.7), or some HIX-list (see 2.1) may be able to help.


Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS


Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be


Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents


Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in English:
letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and some other
special symbols. Since the number of all these characters, plus the
unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32 positions of
the ASCII table, responsible for different control functions) doesn't
exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of representing the ASCII table
in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over the computer world. No wonder,
that most of the Internet mailers and Usenet hubs are also set up to
forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.  (Read the rest of the section
carefully to learn how to overcome these problems.) As computing and
word processing started to rise up in the rest of the world, there was
an increasing demand to represent these national characters as well. (A
good example is Hungarian. The extra consonants [nonexistent in
English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2 (or 3 in case of dzs)
regular Latin characters; so there is no problem here.  However, the
special vowels of the language are denoted by applying different
accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new characters, the so
called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to place these national
characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes 128 to 255, still
remaining within the byte limit. Different character sets have been
created by defining purpose- or language-specific characters for the
upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit ASCII codes unchanged.
(Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes between 0 and 31, the
domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some, or none of them.
Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult, device- and
implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be wise to put
accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets listed below
did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop this
confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

.. ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see, containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
.. 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special
characters (with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit
character sets.
.. Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces all the programs in the HIX archives that address the
problem of conversion between the various types of accent


Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters: No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'. The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see " denotes umlaut! The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.) Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.


Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.


 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity. PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code
assignment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using
them for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense. ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available. Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of
many printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.


Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.] [La]TeX. 

 Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the
Greek letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are
today's most popular text formatting languages for document creation
and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es. HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk


   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz RTF (Rich Text Format)

 This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For
non-ASCII characters it uses the following coding:


where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for
DOS) character in hexadecimal. Adobe PostScript

 It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles
in practice.


Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see


Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal ) MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically. Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.


Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is 
<http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/info/programs/>;, though
you should also check <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/>; 
for updates. At the time of this writing the SENDDOC archive is 
extremely ill-organized and outdated in many parts, including, 
unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! From abroad always access the HIX archives via 
<mailto:>, or 'finger '
(the latter only works for text, and you may have to capture it
into a file). The mirror at <gopher://hix.elte.hu> is 
updated only at certain periods of time, also there is a limited 
bandwidth on the lines connecting Hungary to the world (see section 4). ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files. etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform. hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX. drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source code for conversion between RTF (Rich
Text Format), character sets ISO 8859/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin 2)
and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically. The outbound format can't be RTF. Supported platforms:
VMS, MS-DOS, & possibly UNIX. hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated. MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in <http://hix.mit.edu/hix/hixcore/senddoc/new/MAXENT.Z>;.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see,
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided. ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous <ftp://bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu/pub/income/ekezetes>, you can
find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of many kinds of
conversion.  Also find other goodies in the directory above.


Subject:  5.3 Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

 This section is by no means to be comprehensive. For a big but dated
(1992) list see

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv
at Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as
well as POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to
<mailto:> (or simply  on

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can be
joined at <mailto:> with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group that
deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.  The
archive is accessible with anonymous <ftp://wu-wien.ac.at>, or with

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov>, also contains some information and news
items relevant to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about
Slovakia:  on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk>;, via
<gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>, via <ftp://ftp.eunet.sk/slovakia/>, via
gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP



(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor     <mailto:>           general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick   <mailto:>     1.3
Csaszar Peter  <mailto:>   5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter   <mailto:> 3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoltan  <mailto:>           much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron <mailto:>      1.2
Hollo Kriszta  <mailto:>         4.2
Umann Kornel   <mailto:>        5.2
Varnum, Ken    <mailto:>       1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors are the responsibility of
Zoli's - who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just
comments readers may have!


Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions of this document will be in
or <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq>. Notice
that the canonical Usenet archive <ftp://rtfm.mit.edu> is often
overloaded - if you can't get connected try one of the mirror sites
(such as <mirrors.aol.com:/pub/rtfm/usenet/> in the USA)! You can
also retrieve it via email: <mailto:> 
with the command "send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq" in the
body of the message.
 A separate document listing Hungarian Internet providers is being
prepared independently (by John Horvath at IIF), and is expected to be
released around July 1995.

 This hungarian-faq is expected to be updated at least every couple of
months, due to the rapid changes occuring on the net. If you are
reading a copy whose 'Last-modified:' date shown on top is older than
that then many parts may be out of date - in this case get the recent
one from the sources listed above, and/or try to convince the
administrator of the site keeping the old copy to freshen it. Please
notice that retrieving from the Usenet archives is likely a lot faster
than asking me personally (and most everything I can answer is already
in here)! If you do write me <mailto:>, then give a
descriptive 'Subject:' line - keep in mind that much of my incoming
email deemed unworthy by me is deleted unread in order to keep up with
the high volume I am receiving (most of it from various mailing
lists).  The best way to ensure catching my attention - and to allow
automatized pre-processing - is to start it with 'ZFIX:' (the name my
mail-handler answers to is Zophisticated Free Information eXchange, in
case you were wondering :-)).

 Zoli  (note my old full address @bcuxs2 is retired)
 "For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of
 my betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling
+ - Moroccan Party in Washington !!!! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hot Moroccan party to celebrate the 4th of July in Washington

     W/ Casbah Band

     Rai, Chaabi, pop Music

    At    Barchetta's
          1836 Wilson Blvd    Arlington, Va 
          For more info please call    703 521 0523
+ - Re: TOPO Hungarock group (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: Since I've never heard about this TOPO group before, I wonder how known
: it is in Hungary.  Their music is kinda' interesting, a mix of Western
: rock and Hungarian folk music, reminescent of the Illes style.
: Is this style still "in" in Hungary?
: Joe

I'd like to know is this music is available on cassette. I am interested 
in any rock that is not just an imitation of Western (US) rock, but 
infuses its own cultural beat, so to speak.

Also, is there any distinctly Roma Rock or Roma Rap cassettes?

Hi Joe, Fancy meeting you here.

Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: Bathory csalad ( elotte: Re: Hungarian and Sumerian (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > T. Kocsis > writes
>forrás: A csejtei várúrnő, Báthory Erzsébet

Köszönöm a begépelést. Látom, érdekel az Erzsébet téma. Lökött és véreskezű
uralkodók mintha elég sok lett volna MO-on, főleg korábban úgy rémlik, hogy
voltak szép számban ilyen politikai meggyilkolások...
-- Olivier
+ - Re: Magyar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  (Jun Miy
amoto) writes:
>I am a Japanese speaker who is studying Magyar for personal interest.
>I heard that Japanese is loosely related to Finnish and Hugarian. 
>I have looked at a few Hungarian words but so far I haven't been
>able to see any similarity. Is this claim a total false one? Does
>anyone know any good examples to prove the connection?

Japanese is mid-way between Austronesian family (Indonesian, Tagalog,
Polynesian languages, Madagascar etc) and Altaic family (Mongol and
Turkic languages, though not everybody they are related). So there
might be a very loose link going from Japanese (and Korean, similarly)
all the way to Turkish, but with so few word roots in common at each link
(like between Japanese and Korean) that probably almost no vocabulary can
be considered common between the two ends of the chain, but rather grammar
similarities in sentence construction, etc.

Hungarian is in the Uralic family (also including Samoyed of northern
Siberia, small languages around the Ural mountains and in central Russia,
and Finnish, Estonian, Lapp). And it has been influenced in grammar and
vocabulary by old Turkic languages, for instance there once was a Khazar
confederation including Hungarian and Turkic tribes together.

So a connection between the two in a Ural-Altaic family has been supposed
last century based on grammar similarities, but today this does not seem
enough to suppose a common origin.

>As far as 
>the intonation of the two languages are concerned, Magyar does
>resemble Japanese. It's really flat and monotonical without much

So is Finnish for instance.

>So Japanese is not for shouting or swearing.

It may be a cultural thing (if you really want to, I am sure all languages
are able to express that, and Hungarians says their language has much swearing

-- Olivier
+ - Re: Magyar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


I am opposite of you. I am Hungarian studying Japanese. I find that there 
are what people might consider as similarities between the two languages, 
or at least as I've noticed.

I find a few striking similarities. 1) Hungarian, like japanese makes heavy 
use of particles (suffixes) as word endings to portray different meanings 
from the root word. 2) Hungarian is also capable of placing the verb at 
the end thus bearing striking resemblence to Japanese sentence structure 
[subject object verb]. However, Hungarian also can use the [subject verb 
object] structure for  emphasis (eg: En megyed az uzletbe. - emphasizes 
the that "I" am going to the store. 3) Perhaps more coincidental than not 
Hungarian does not use the plural suffix on nouns when a quantity is 
specified before the noun. [eg: harom alma - meaning three apples] In 
Hungarian we only use the plural suffixes when there is NO quantity 

Not being a linguist, I can't say if such similarities are by coincidence 
or as a result of common cultural roots dating back thousands of years. 
With both languages being that old it is very difficult to be sure.

Horvath Attila

On 23 Jun 1995, Jun Miyamoto wrote:

> Date: 23 JUN 1995 13:55:43 GMT 
> From: Jun Miyamoto >
> Newgroups: soc.culture.magyar
> Subject: Magyar 
> In article >,
> Nikolaj Nielsen  > wrote:
> >
> >
> >  The Hungarian language's uniqueness is derived from its non-Indo 
> >European roots.  For over a thousand years the language has evolved, but 
> >how has it survived in such an lingual-isolationist environment?  Most 
> >languages in Europe are "genetically rooted" (with the exception of 
> >Finnish, Basque and some other minor languages).  I assume that its the 
> >Hungarian nature to preserve their language through cultural traditions, 
> >which I believe are not flourishing (at least when I was there) except to 
> >appease tourists.  But now, with the advent of English computer jargon 
> >etc., the Hungarian language is beginning to subsume more foreign lexicon 
> >in ways not unlike the German influence during the Austro-Hungarian 
> >empire.  All languages change continously, but what kind of impact does 
> >Indo-European languages have on an isolated non-Indo E. language such as 
> >Hungarian, especially since Hungary has ostensibly opened up?  I'm 
> >constructing an analytical paper on Hungarian and how political and 
> >social issues are affecting the language.  Any response would be well 
> >appreciated.
> >
> >Koszonom,  Nikolaj Nielsen
> I am a Japanese speaker who is studying Magyar for personal interest.
> I heard that Japanese is loosely related to Finnish and Hugarian. 
> I have looked at a few Hungarian words but so far I haven't been
> able to see any similarity. Is this claim a total false one? Does
> anyone know any good examples to prove the connection? As far as 
> the intonation of the two languages are concerned, Magyar does
> resemble Japanese. It's really flat and monotonical without much
> stress. So Japanese is not for shouting or swearing.
> Any comment?
> Jun Miyamoto
> Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
> U of Michigan
+ - Ver Andras menedeklevele (1493) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

** Betühív átírás

A korabeli kancelláriai helyesírással rokon, de régiesebb.

"en ver andra† adom kezem ˙ra††at hog ado† volt volna
nekem erdv heg˙ bala† zaz forintal, z˙k vdvarnak (zalaga)
zalago††ag zerent e† az zaz forintnak hvzat meg adtta az
hvz forintrvl en ver andra† tel˙e† menedeket adtam ez
erdv heg˙ bala†nak, adatot ˙envben k˙† karaczon e†tin,
ennek ma†˙a erdvheg˙ bala†nak adtam

**Az olvasat átirása 17- századi Kocsis-féle magyar

Én Vér András adom én kezem írását, hogy adós
volt volna énnekem Erdőhegyi Balázs száz forinttal
szik (?) udvarnak (zálaga) zálagosság szerént és az
száz forintnak húszát megatta. Az húsz forintról
én Vér András teljes menedéket attam az Erdőhegyi
adatott Jenőben, kiskarátson estin (1493)
ennek másja Erdőhegyi Balázsnak attam.

kiskarátson:               újév napja
menedék:                    nyugta
zálagosság szerént:   zálog ellenében

+ - Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Janos Szamosfalvi,
>E'n nem emle'kszem a pontos da'tumra e's ne'vre, de azthiszem hogy valami 
>halotti besze'd a legido"sebb irott magyar szo:veg

A legrégebbi magyar nyelvemlék a veszprémvölgyi apácák
görög nyelvü adománylevele, mely 1002 elött született és
az 1109-es latin nyelvü megújítása maradt ránk.

Aztán jön a Tihanyi Apátság alapítólevele (1055)

A jelenleg ismert legrégebbi magyar nyelvü szövegemlék
valóban a Halotti Beszéd és Könyörgés, amely a Pray-kó-
dexben maradt fenn.

+ - *** RANDI *** #179 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

nem kene mar kicsit vers es vmagdi mentes lenni?  
oh..ja.. akkor a Randi.... megdoglene......:)))))))))) 
hogy azon a krumplistesztan is meddig csamcsogtatok....ah... 
amugy.. mindenkinek....kellemes....es PC mentes....hosszu ntarat
+ - Battyanyi Ferenc levele felesegehez (1526) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Saj´ĺt korszakához képest helyesírása régies,
a kancellária III. korszakának helyesírási rend-
szerét követi.

** Betühív átírás

"˙o katvs zerethe leanion semmith ne bankog˙al
mert Isten mind ˙ol ag˙a ˙ma˙g Istent az sok
˙amborert een vtannam semmit ne bankog˙al akar
most akar az vtan minden embernek meg kell halni
ha Isten meg akar tartani meg tart az mit akar
az lezen de en h˙zem Istent hog˙ az mostani bá-
natonkkat ees farasagvnkat mind v˙gsagra ees
nivgodalomra ag˙a ees kerlek zerethe leaniom
hog˙ megh emlekezzel az en adossagomrvl ha en
nekem holtom tertenik, mert ha meg halok ees
nilvan h˙szem az en Istenemeth hogy helre
megek ha eelek ees tyztessegemre ˙evek haza [..]"

**Az olvasat átirása 17- századi magyar irásmódra

/ Nyelvészek az olvasás megkezdése elött csukják
be a szemüket.../

'ë'-vel írom azt az hangot, amiről nem tudom
eldönteni az átírásból, hogy zárt 'e'-nek vagy
'ö'-nek kell ejteni.

Jó Katus szerető leányom semmit ne bánkódjál
mert Isten mind jól agya [áldja ?] imád
Istent az sok jámborért.
Énutánam semmit ne bánkódjál. Akár most akár az-
után minden embërnek mëg kell halni. Ha Isten
mëg akar tartani mëgtart, az mit akar az leszen
de én hiszëm/hüszëm Istent, hogy az mostani
bánatonkat és fáradságunkat mind vígságra és
nyugodalomra agya. És kérlek szerető/szërë-
tő leányom, hogy megemlékëzzél  az én adós-
ságomrul, ha énnekem holtom tërténik/történik.
Mert ha meghalok és nyilván hiszëm az én
Istenëmet, hogy helremëgyëk [helyrejövök] és
tisztësségëmre jëvëk haza [..]

+ - Marosvasarhelyi sorok (XV. sz. elso negyede) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

** Betühív átírás

A XV. századi nem kancelláriai helyesíráshoz tartozik.
Jóval korábbi kancelláriai jelölést őrzött meg. Főképp
a gy hang jelölésében mutat nagy tartkaságot.

Ha medue el viuend valami nem kelket t

eŹ ha miden te atyad dauid kyral
chach eggiet meg elend Ź valaky azt
hallandia az nog yelte†t tezen hog te
neped veretut Ź mend te melleled
el futnak eŹ menden ere†nek
ollian lezen ionha mit pauanak

**Az olvasat átirása 17- századi Kocsis-féle magyar

Ha medve elvivend valamineme kelket/kölköt

és ha midőn te atyád Dávid Király
tsak egyet megölend s valaki azt
hallandja/hallangya, az nagy üveltést tészen hogy te
néped veretütt s mend temellöled
elfutnak és menden/minden erösnek
ollyan leszen jonha, mint pávának

megj 1:
jonha -    szíve (jonh: szív, lélek)
valamineme - valaminemü

megj 2:
van egy tippem, hogy honnan származik a 'halandzsa'
szó:     hallandja/hallangya

+ - Re: R.O.M.A. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hermes ) wrote:

: On 23 Jun 1995  wrote:

: > >look bad is an old hungarian saying, describing the laughter of the imbeci
: > >'Rohog mint egy fa kutya' !
: > 
: > What's the matter, Hermes?  Can dish it out but can't take it?

: Every time I am trying to be a truth loving man, they spew acusations
: upon my posting !

That's one of the biggest crocks I every heard coming out of your mouth. 
Actually, I think it is a culvert, not a mouth. Truth-loving man? I 
posted some dates places names of burnt villages or villages where Gypsy 
homes were burned and all you respond with is unsubstantiated opinions. 
Usually that it was started with a Gypsy murdering a peacful Romanian who 
would never dream of insulting a Gypsy. You have done very little other 
than mock, insult, and you wonder why it comes flying back. You are a 
truth-shitting man Mark. As if you never spew accusations on the posting 
of others. You lie in wait to ambush newbies -- it is your specialty. You 
did it with Busimom. 

: > You know what is obviously missing from Romanians?  A sense of
: > selfdeprecating humor.  

: There is plenty of that, alas you are like a blind man wondering
: where is the sunrise  [;=) 

The only deprecating humour in SCR has been focussed against Gypsies, 
Jews and other non-Romanians. I recognize that there are Romanians who 
have quickly responded against against any deprecating remarks against 
Jews and this is much to their credit, and the credit of SCR.

: > You guys just think yourself too damn important;

: Very perceptive ;=(  In your cursory, even slothy examination of reality,
: you are doomed to fail to grasp the essential.  We are important ! 
: We talk to God ! And behold, he even talks back.

:                                   |    |     |
:                                  )_)  )_)   )__)
:                                 )___))____))____)\
:                                )____)_____))_____)\\
:                             _____|____|______|___\\\__
:           m. cristian     ---\  Hic  et  ubique   /---------
:                        ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, it is true. I could hear the rumbles of dialogue all the way here in 
CanaDADA. SHE said, "You are an ornery old coot Mark. You are destined to 
be a flamer with as much power as a worn out Bic. The world needs you as 
a bad example, so fathers can tell their children, 'See, you don't want 
to grow and be like that - cynical.'"

Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency
+ - Re: Hungarian and Sumerian? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Janos Szamosfalvi,
>E'n nem emle'kszem a pontos da'tumra e's ne'vre, de azthiszem hogy valami 
>halotti besze'd a legido"sebb irott magyar szo:veg -- igaz hogy nem ko:nnyu:
>olvasni  { mik vogmuk por e's chomu vogmuk } de aze'rt hasonlit 
>valamelyest a mostani magyarra.   E'n olvastam middle e's old english-t
>-- a middle english egy kicsit me'g hasonlitott a modern englishre, the 
>az old english olyan volt mint egy ma'sik nyelv.

Hozhatnál néhány angol példát. Nekem csak 16. századi angol szövegem
van, az sem eredeti. (Fowles: Maggot)
Ha elmúlik kicsit az influenzám a hétvégére, akkor begépelek néhány
régebbi magyar szöveget. Méghozzá kicsit átirva a 17. századi magyar
irásmódra. A régebbi szövegek baja az, hogy eltérő irásmódokat hasz-
náltak az íróik. Ha ezt átírja az ember fonetikusra vagy a mai kiejtés-
hez közelebbálló irásmódra, akkor egyből könnyebben olvasódnak.

+ - Re: *** TO ALL, PLEASE READ *** (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello "just a test"
+ - Re: Poet Avenues & Streets (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Wally Keeler) writes:

>I am doing a comparative study of Moscow, Dublin, London, Paris and 
>Budapest. I am trying to determine which city cherishes its poets and 
>writers the most by naming streets, avenues, squares, city blocks, subway 
>stations, parks, etc. after their best literary authors.

>Please provide me with any names and whether it is a street, park etc.

 I doubt there's a significant literary Hungarian author who is not a 
 namegiver in Budapest!

I live in Jozsef Attila Street. I travel to work through Babits Mihaly Street,
Karinthy Frigyes Street, Moricz Zsigmond square (a very important junction) 
or Kosztolanyi Dezso Square.

Petofi Sandor Street, Madach (Imre) Square, Vorosmarty (Mihaly) Square 
(subway station), Vajda Janos Street, Arany Janos Street, Petofi Bridge, etc.
are also known places which happen to cross my mind now. 

Er.. I know where Szabolcska Mihaly Street is... His works weren't quite 
literary milestones... :-)  

>Wally Keeler					Poetry


 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
                     WWW page:    http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html
+ - Re: Magyar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Steven C. Scheer) writes:
>linguist, so these are amateur observations. However, having lived
>far away from Hungary for many, many years, it is interesting that when
>I hear it now during visits home, I think I can almost hear the 
>music of the language as if I were a foreigner. As if I were, mind
>you. Kellemes tovabbi szorakozast . . . 

 If you're extremely tired and/or you can hardly hear the speech, you'll 
 succeed in hearing "the music" too, even if you live in a Hungarian speaking

>Steven C. Scheer, or Scheer Istvan Csaba


 Miklos Prisznyak   (KFKI RMKI Theor. Dep. Budapest, Hungary H-1525 P.O.B 49)
                     WWW page:    http://sgi30.rmki.kfki.hu/~prisz/prisz.html