On 7 Mar 1996, Tibor Odor wrote:
> On March 7 Janos Zsargo > on the 
> Hungarian American List (HAL) with Subject:      About Soros. wrote:

> >>I think, this question is very simple. You have to go to the Szabo Ervin
> >> Library
> >>and to ask a check for the payment of the TOEFL exame. That is all.
> 
> >The story about these checks is true (I guess they call them voucher or
> >something like that). I paid my TOEFL exam with this check. I had to pay
> >the amount in hungarian currency and enclose this voucher to my application.
> 
> That is what I wanted to prove.

 So what is so bad now? That Soros is giving dollars for forints or what? 
When I took TOEFL a couple of years ago I had to pay directly to the exam
committe - a significant portion out of my then very tightly limited
tourist hard currency quota. While that situation certainly avoided any
involvement Soros' foundation may have now, I fail to see how it would be
more advantageous to the testees... 

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
# Wallace Sayre said, "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter
# form of politics, because the stakes are so low."  He didn't know
# Usenet: welcome to the next level.           (Ron "Asbestos" Dippold)

> wrote:
>
>no, actually, i have read the central directive, it's from milton klein.

All the Kleins, save one, I knew were Jewish.  Is this guy, too?
It sure would be an ironic twist!

Joe

George Antony Ph 93818 > wrote:
>
>Ez nem ures fenyegetes, es nem lehet arra epiteni, hogy mas orszagokon 
>keresztul postazva meg lehet kerulni a torvenyt.  A minap Canberra-ban 
>letartoztatott pedofil esete bizonyitotta, hogy az FBI es az Ausztral 
>Szovetsegi Rendorseg hatekonyan egyutt tud mukodni az Interneten keresztul 
>elkovetett buncselekmenyek ellen.

Igen, pedofilia eseteben.  De itt nem arrol van szo, hanem politikai
allasfoglalasrol, amit legalabbis az USAban az alkotmany olyannyira ved,
hogy meg a horogkeresztes nacik felvonulasat is rendori segitseggel
biztositjak.  Meg egy kozismerten zsido negyeden keresztul is.

Szoval ne keverd a szezont a fazonnal.

PJ

I am a 28 year old young man, living in Toronto, of Hungarian origin.  I 
would like to use the Internet to get in touch with other people of 
Hungarian origin around the work just to chat.  Although my Hungarian is 
not very good, I would be pleased to chat either in English or Hungarian 
just to improve my ability in this beautiful language.  Also, if you are 
of Hungarian origin and would like to improve your written English, I 
would be more than happy to help you.  I am open to almost any topic you 
suggest, and I hope to hear from you soon!  
-- 
Richard E. Sipos
The world is wonderful and so are you
Thanks for writing
See you soon!

Istvan Szucs > wrote:
>
>I did a little research. Andrassy ut 60 was and is still
>owned by CHEMOKOMPLEX(sp?), an import- export company. 

Darn!  There goes my latest conspiracy theory!  It looked so promising
though, no?

Tamas, I can't trust you anymore. You've ruined my whole day. 

Joe

My father was born in Balassagyarmat, Hungary, during the 1930s.  Can 
anyone tell me where Balassagyarmat was, and if it still exists today?

Also, if it is no longer, how can I access my father's birth records?  
Where?  Does anyone know?

Thank you in advance,

Val

annak itt van Szucs Istvan gyonyoru on-jellemzese. Mintha
csak segiteni akarna megmutatni magat, ne kelljen nekem
csunya szavakat hasznalnom. Koszonom.

Eloszor is megmutatja, hogy magyarul sem tud. "Hazugsag"-
nak, sot "ragalmazas"-nak szeretne beallitani, s bocsanatkerest
kovetel (azon az alapon, hogy kijelenti, senkije sem volt
avos), a alabbi mondatomert: "kimeletlenul fel kell lepnunk az
olyan avosgyerekszeruen pimasz es tortenelmileg felelotlen
provokatorok ellen is, mint Szucs Istvan, akik a Salgotarjani
EROSZAKOT egyenlosegbe (vagy akar csak parhuzamba)
 allitjak ket liberalbolsevik remuralom (1990 elotti es 94
utani) korszaka kozott altaluk ideiglenesen elturt demokracia-
kiserlettel, amikor is a 90-94 idoszak alatt SEMMIFELE EROSZAK
ALKALMAZASARA, meg egy sokszorosan tulerdemelt pofon
kiosztasara sem kerult sor - marmint a Szatmari nevu hivatasos
hirszerzo szerint SZDSZ/Peto altal szervezett es vegrehajtott taxi-
blokadon KIVUL."

Termeszetesen minden problema nelkul bocsanatot kernek
akkor, ha (1) azt allitottam volna hogy Szucs Istvan avosgyerek,
es (2) azon tul hogy artatlanul azt allitja senkije sem volt avos,
ez bebizonyosodna.

Viszont aki tud magyarul, az lathatja, en egyaltalan nem mondtam,
hogy barkije avos volt. Azt mondtam (fenntartom), hogy "avos-
gyerekSZERUEN pimasz es tortenelmileg felelotlen" Szucs
Istvan ur. Olyanszeru, mint pl. Peto Ivan (avosgyerek), aki
szinten pimaszul es felelotlenul nyilatkozik a mostani liberalbolsevik
rendszer vedelmeben, holott eppen Peto Ivan volt (Szatmari
szemtanusaga szerint) aki a taxisblokadot szervezte es iranyitotta.

Ezert nem szabad hat ezeket tulbecsulni, hiszen modszeruk a
sarbarantas, a csusztatas, a hazugsag. Itt van tovabbi peldanak
az az alaptalan inszinuacio, hogy vakacio idejen azert nem foglal-
kozom nyomorusagos lelkivilagukkal, mert EN mondtam volna
barmi igaztalant! Ok hazudoznak ejjel, hazudnak nappal, hazudnak
minden hullamhosszon - nyilvan ha BARMI hazugsag lenne
reszemrol akkor azt konkretan elo tudnak tarni, nem csak aljas
modon sunnyognanak "valamirol".  Ha pedig valakit "hazugsag-
gal" vadolnak, de az bizonyitatlan, nem mas mint ragalmazas.
Ehhez pedig igen jol ertenek. Remelem Szucs Istvan ur meg
jobban kitarulkozik, hadd lassa csak mindenki, milyen eszkozok-
kel is operalnak ok!

Szia

Nem tudom tudja-e valaki miert nem lehet ralepni egy magyar serverre sem!!!!
Ha valaki barmit tudd rola kerem irjon,mert fontos lenne bejuttnom.
Az is erdekelne,hogy mi az oka,es az is hogy hogy lehetne megis atjuttni!
Elore is Koszonom:Gergo

******************************************************************************
*                                                                            *
*                           J A V O R  G E R G E L Y                         *
*                                                                            *
*                          H U N G A R Y - I S R A E L                       *
*                                                                            *
******************************************************************************

Richard,

     Would you please post your E-Mail address so that someone could E-Mail
     you, if they wished ?!

______________________________ Reply Separator ________________________________
_
Subject: SCM: mail new friends
Author:   at Internet
Date:    3/8/96 4:46 AM


I am a 28 year old young man, living in Toronto, of Hungarian origin.  I 
would like to use the Internet to get in touch with other people of 
Hungarian origin around the work just to chat.  Although my Hungarian is 
not very good, I would be pleased to chat either in English or Hungarian 
just to improve my ability in this beautiful language.  Also, if you are 
of Hungarian origin and would like to improve your written English, I 
would be more than happy to help you.  I am open to almost any topic you 
suggest, and I hope to hear from you soon!  
-- 
Richard E. Sipos
The world is wonderful and so are you 
Thanks for writing
See you soon!  
     
 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
 subs/unsubs info - mailto:  
 ------------------------------------------------------------------

In article > , 
writes:
>>I did a little research. Andrassy ut 60 was and is still
>>owned by CHEMOKOMPLEX(sp?), an import- export company. 

>Darn!  There goes my latest conspiracy theory!  It looked so promising
>though, no?

>Tamas, I can't trust you anymore. You've ruined my whole day.

Joe & Istvan, 

Sorry about that, it seems I misunderstood something in the
report. But the SF must have at least one building on the And-
rássy street which was shownbecause I've recognised the place.

It may be checked easily, anyway. What is the adress of the
CEU or its rectorat ? Istvan, could you also check that, please ?

Tamas

*** Hungarian Lobby Digest ***  Fri, 8 Mar 1996  Vol 01 No 058

ATTENTION! The Hungarian Lobby Digest mailing list is available!

      ***       Greetings from the Hungarian Lobby      ***
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In this issue:
--------------

	Re: HL: Unabashed Slovak propaganda in New York
	HL: Re: Kisse tobb tiszteletet, uraim!
	HL: Hungarian get-together in San Francisco, CA, Friday, March 8
	Re: HL: Panhandle Pages - FBS Senate Email Address List
	HL: Pal Cseresznyes (Facts and addresses)
	HL: Panhandle Pages - FBS Senate Email Address List
	HL: Re: HAL: Soros vs HL
	HL: *** Error messages on HAL ***
	Re: HL: Sustainable development
	HL: Panhandle Pages - FBS Senate Email Address List
	HL: Anthony Malzanek: Hungarians in Romania (8)
	Re: HL: Re: HAL: Soros vs HL

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the Hungarian Lobby
 
or Hungarian Lobby Digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 09:34:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: HL: Unabashed Slovak propaganda in New York

Dear friends,

does anyone have the address (fax, email or snail) of  APISA International S.A.
?
Thank you!

Peter Orban



> Dear friends,
> I have never perused the "Daily News" which looks like a tabloid and probably
 it
> is one.
>  However a friend of mine sent me the 10.5"x14" , 12 page , colored,  Februar
y
> 25, 1996,
> special Sunday supplement of the Daily News with the title: SLOVAKIA  BACK IN
> EUROPE"
>  ( The special supplement was produced by APISA INTERNATIONAl S.A.
>  ( Tel.:1-(804) 440-7874,  Mr. Eugene Ruben). 
> 	After reading this political / commercial advertising, I realized that
> urgent hl alert 
> and action is required. It is difficult to discover the identity of the
> advertiser.  Is it the  government?
>  iIs it   the democratic opposition ? Or perhaps is it  a very astutely
> camouflaged government
> commercial specially designed for Amerivcans only? After reading the  followi
ng
> excerpts
> you will understand my doubts, but the definite need of multiple (political,
> business,
>  environmental and energy production related) responses also.
> 
....
etc.
....
> > Page 11. MAKING A "GRAPE" DEBUT
> > ... speaking of European wine producers...Slovakia doesn't immediately spri
ng
> to mind... One 
> > of the country's main vintners is the state-owned Tokaj Wine Producing
> Company..."Maybe soon
> > you can buy our wine in the United States.."       No comments.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> ------------------------------------------------------
> In order to survive the New York metropolitan news papers must have several
> hundred thousand subscribers. I think, therefore, it is urgent and important,
 to
> react with diplomatic
> skill. Apparently, this is their version for Bos.
> 
> (Egy uj magyar kozmondas szuletett toprengesem kozben: " Ha turod, hogy elvig
yek
> a vizedet, 
> elviszik a borodat is.")
> Greetings Tibor
> 
> 
> 	  
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From:  (Csaba Gaal)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:26:00 -0500
Subject: HL: Re: Kisse tobb tiszteletet, uraim!

Kedves Czifra ur! 

        Nem akarom Jancsikamnak szolitani, pedig nyilvanvaloan azt szeretne,
csak ugy, haveri alapon. Ne haragudjon, de legtobbunk megvalogatja baratait,
akivel tegezodik, meg ismeretlenul is. No de nem errol akartam irni. Csak ki
nem allhatom a haveri bizalmassagot, plane  ha nem is ismerem.

        Irja, hogy nincsenek "fajtiszta" magyarok. Igaz. Nincsenek. De
ugyanugy nincsenek mas fajtiszta naciok sem. Sem a Karpat Medenceben, sem
masutt a vilagon. (Talan Izraelben van egy kis elenyeszo "fajtiszta"
csoport, de az sem biztos. )
        
        Nem muszaj minden hulyeseget bevenni, amit tanitottak Lehel apank
kurtjerol es Botond bacsi buzoganyarol, de: a magyarnak VAN tortenelme, VAN
joga, hogy ott eljen, dolgozzon es nevelje fel gyermekeit, bekeben es
joletben, ahol osei 1100 even at mar ezt gyakoroltak. Ezt nem lehet
lebagatelizalni. 

        Mi lenne ha valaki nagy Erdelyt most hirtelen visszakapcsolna
Magyarorszaghoz?   A masfel millio szekely mellett hova tennenk a ket es fel
millio mas nepet? Romant, foleg ciganyt? Maga etetne oket? Ruhazna oket,?
Munkat adna nekik?  Gondolkodni is kell, es valamivel hosszabban, mint a sor
vege, mely a Computeren kifer. 

        Azert, mert valaki a Forumon ir es nincs meg az iraskezsege, nem
kell megvetni, lealazni ot. (Ez megtortent, nem is olyan regen!) .
Valoszinuleg - mar csak azert is, mert itt ir! - van olyan jo magyar ember,
mint akik nem valljak be helyesirasi hibaikat (masokrol nem is beszelve...)
de nagy hanggal haverkodnak - esetleg patinas, nagymuveltsegu magyar
matematikusokkal. Ez a Forum nem egy amerikai keveroedeny, melyben mindenki,
a dicso demokracia alapelveinek megfeleloen  hirtelen egyenlo lesz.
Egyenjogu, talan, de nem egyenlo. Tiltakozom azok neveben, akik eletuket
szenteltek annak, hogy muvelodjenek, tanitsanak es mas modokon is betoltsek
az intellektualizmus kovetelmenyeit.  Az itteni butasag tengereben ez
majdnem emberfeletti dolog.

        Koszonom, hogy vette a faradtsagot ezt elolvasni. Remelem nem volt
nehez.


Udvozli Gaal Csaba


------------------------------

From: Tony and Celia Becker >
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 17:02:31 -0700
Subject: HL: Hungarian get-together in San Francisco, CA, Friday, March 8

One of these year's I'm going to actually get both notice, and important
details, of an event more than 5 days before--and I'll faint.  My apologies
to anyone else for this very late posting, as a result of some details only
becoming known today.

OK, for those who live within the larger northern California metropolitan areas
:

The Hungarian Consul-General, Dr. Imre Helyes, will be giving a "state of
Hungary" speech for members (and friends) of the Hungarian American Chamber
of Commerce, San Francisco area chapter, on Friday evening, March 8.  A
dinner is included, for those who can and wish to attend that portion.
Dinner costs $23 for members and $26 for non-members.

The location is the Big Sky Ranch Restaurant (old Paprikas Fonos--and it
still has a Hungarian menu in addition to a "western" menu); Ghirardelli
Square, 900 North Point Blvd. (fifth floor,southwest corner of complex).

Reception is at 6 p.m.; dinner at 7 p.m.; speech at 8 p.m.

RSVP is to the honorary consul and current President of HACC, Eva Voisin, at
tel: 415-595-0444; fax: 415-595-3976.  If you are intending to come for
dinner, call or fax ASAP--like before noon California time Friday March 8.

EXTRA HIGHLIGHT--IMPORTANT PLEASE NOTE: we have a very strong possibility of
the major Republican candidate running for the 14th Congressional seat being
in attendance at this event.  His name is Benjamin Macalester Brink, and he
already has prior interests in Hungary.  Besides being a CEO of a small
high-tech start-up company, and having previous high-tech and venture
capital experience; he has also been an officer in the U.S. Navy and
Reserve.  He currently still holds the rank of "commander" in the USNR and
has members of his unit currently serving in both Hungary and Bosnia--and he
just trained them for this special assignment.  He is also personally a
friend of both William Perry--yes, _that_ William Perry and George
Schultz--yes _that_ George Schultz.

Upon his election in November, Ben could be a powerful voice on behalf of
Hungarian concerns in the U.S. Congress--and have even greater additional
influence through his Naval connections in the Administration... Ben's
campaign office has said they believe he and his wife will be coming to this
event.  Thus this will be an excellent opportunity for Hungarian Americans,
particularly from the Southwest SF Bay area to become acquainted with this
candidate, in a smaller group setting, where you might get to enjoy
lengthier conversations than elections usually permit.

Sincerely,


Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
San Jose, CA, USA
e-mail: 




N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

- ----------------------ADMINISTRATIVIA---------------------------
The Hungarian Lobby digest list is ready. To change to the digest
version, send the commands (on mail can carry both)
unsubscribe hl
subscribe hl-digest
in the body of your letter to the  address.
No subject is necessary.
- -------------------! HL-DIGEST LIST IS READY !-------------------

------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 17:55:23 -0500
Subject: Re: HL: Panhandle Pages - FBS Senate Email Address List

Dear Friends:

I don't see here Senator Bob Dole's E-mail address and I would need it
badly.Could you give it to me?

Thanks:

 (Lajos Pagony HL member)
- ----------------------ADMINISTRATIVIA---------------------------
The Hungarian Lobby digest list is ready. To change to the digest
version, send the commands (on mail can carry both)
unsubscribe hl
subscribe hl-digest
in the body of your letter to the  address.
No subject is necessary.
- -------------------! HL-DIGEST LIST IS READY !-------------------

------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:11:50 -0500
Subject: HL: Pal Cseresznyes (Facts and addresses)

Dear Colleagues,

Here are some of the facts of the Cseresznyes case: His file is #540/1991 in
the Maros County Court. He was arrested on January 17, 1991.

He was accused of kicking Mihaila Cofaru. According to the court doctor, the
kick caused no serious injury. The defense attorney of Mr. Cseresznyes, RMDSZ
senator Gyorgy Frunda stated, that the reason why his client comitted the
offense was, that he was defending the unarmed civilians from an attack of an
armed mob.

Prior to his trial, Mr. Cseresznyes was regularly beaten and was tortured in
other ways too, including the rubbing of paprika into his eyes.The president
at his trial was Horia Banciu, the judge was: Florin Stoica and the
persecutor: Ioan Luca. On July 7, 1992, he was sentenced to 10 years in jail,
plus to the confiscation of all his property and to a one million ley
penalty. The severity of his penalty is without precedent and it is feared,
that he will "commit suicide" before he is released. 

To my knowledge, with the exception of Amnesty International, no Hungarian,
European or American government representative has ever spoken up for him and
his case has never been covered in the international press.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The number of letter copies I received is approaching 100. From these, I have
noticed that some of you are not copying your political representatives or
local papers. In order to make that easier for you (by "copy and paste"), I
am attaching some of the most often used addresses:
  
EC COMISSIONER FOR MINORITY AFFAIRS:


ENVIRONMENTAL NGOs:











, 












ENVIRONMENTAL PUBLICATIONS:











, 



FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE (US SENATE):









, 




HUNGARIAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS:






HUNGARIAN WIRE SERVICE (MTI), NEWSPAPER & RADIO





MAJOR NEWSPAPERS (USA):




ajopinion






, 

dpnews








alphafran, 


njcenter









, 











, 











POLITICAL LEADERS (USA):




ROMANIAN AUTHORITIES & MEDIA









UNITARIAN CHURCH


WORLD FEDERATION OF HUNGARIANS (MVSZ)






The more people are copied on your letters, the wider is the audience which
you are reaching, plus the addressee is also likely to pay more attention to
a widey distributed letter. Do not be discouraged, if you do not receive an
individualized response, because all letters are read, their topics are
tabulated and as such even the unanswered and unpublished letters have an
impact. I am positive, that if we generate 1000 letters in the defense of Pal
Cseresznyes (as we did during the Iliescu visit), it will make a difference.

Best regards: Bela Liptak



------------------------------

From: Hungarian American Association >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 11:15:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HL: Panhandle Pages - FBS Senate Email Address List

>From URL 

http://www.digital-cafe.com/~webmaster/senate.html

			FARNSWORTH BUSINESS SERVICES

                                PRESENTS
                    THE FEDERAL SENATE EMAIL LIST


    As a public Service, Farnsworth Business Services offers the complete
list of US Senators and their email addresses. Use the email addresses
provided herein to express your pleasure or displeasure to your elected
representatives. 

    If you intend to express your displeasure with one or more of your
elected representatives, we offer the following suggestions in order to
preserve your sanity and prevent you from becoming the target of someone's
investigation. Note that the people that are charged with the
responsibility for our Senators safety are not known for their sense of
humor and by mandate, must take threats seriously, even IF you were joking
at the time. 


When writing to any elected official, be he/she state/local or federal, 
do the following; 

   1.Never threaten. It's ok to say something like "if you don't shape up,
you will not get my vote next time your term is up!", but you can't say "I
am going to give you a fat lip!" 

   2.Include your email and regular mailing addresses when corresponding
to your official. Anonymous emails are usually ignored. 

   3.State clearly at the beginning of the email, the issue which concerns
you, if you want to expand upon your reasoning, do so, AFTER you have
stated your position. 

   4.Remember that the odds are against you, having the Senator personally
read the email. It' is very likely that a member of his staff will read
the email and you will recieve a form email response in return. 

AK  Stevens, Ted                  
AR  Bumpers, Dale               
AZ  Kyl, Jon                    
AZ  McCain, John                
CA  Boxer, Barbara              
CA  Feinstein, Dianne            
CO  Brown, Hank                  
CT  Dodd, Christopher J.         
CT  Lieberman, Joseph I.         
DE  Biden, Jr., Joseph R.        
FL  Graham, Bob                 
GA  Coverdell, Paul             
IA  Grassley, Chuck             
IA  Harkin, Tom                 
ID  Craig, Larry E.             
ID  Kempthorne, Dirk            
IL  Moseley-Braun, Carol        
IL  Simon, Paul                 
KY  Ford, Wendell H.            
KY  McConnell, Mitch            
LA  Breaux, John B.             
LA  Johnston, J. Bennett        
MA  Kennedy, Edward M.          
MA  Kerry, John F.              
MD  Mikulski, Barbara A.        
MD  Sarbanes, Paul S.           
ME  Cohen, William S.           
MI  Abraham, Spencer            
MI  Levin, Carl                 
MN  Grams, Rod                  
MN  Wellstone, Paul             
MO  Ashcroft, John              
MS  Cochran, Thad               
MT  Baucus, Max                 
MT  Burns, Conrad               
NC  Faircloth, Lauch            
NC  Helms, Jesse                
ND  Dorgan, Byron L.             
NE  Kerrey, J. Robert           
NH  Gregg, Judd                   
NH  Smith, Bob                  
NJ  Bradley, Bill               
NM  Bingaman, Jeff              
NM  Domenici, Pete V.           
NV  Reid, Harry                 
NY  D'Amato, Alfonse M.           
NY  Moynihan, Daniel Patrick    
OH  DeWine, Mike                
PA  Santorum, Rick              
PA  Specter, Arlen              
RI  Chafee, John H.             
SC  Hollings, Ernest F.         
SC  Thurmond, Strom             
SD  Daschle, Thomas A.          
SD  Pressler, Larry               
TN  Frist, Bill                 
TN  Thompson, Fred              
TX  Hutchison, Kay Bailey       
UT  Hatch, Orrin G.             
VA  Robb, Charles S.             
VA  Warner, John W.             
VT  Jeffords, James M.          
VT  Leahy, Patrick J.           
WA  Gorton, Slade               
WA  Murray, Patty               
WI  Feingold, Russell D.        
WI  Kohl, Herb                  
WV  Rockefeller IV, John D.     
WY  Simpson, Alan K.            

- --
UMCP Hungarian American Association
mailto:
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/


------------------------------

From: "Peter A. Soltesz" >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:05:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HL: Re: HAL: Soros vs HL

Dear Tibor:
Yes by all means why don't you pick up your marbles and play somewhere 
else???
Your ideas have not been rejected by all. One needs to understand what is 
being
said.
In fact I do not personally believe that we should re-settle peopel into
Hungary. The solution is to make it viable for those who
live outside (Hungary) to allow them to satyby fixing the REAL problems.

I suppose that you are too sensitive (and perhaps intolerant) of other
peoples' ideas or opinions. Your first statement indicates that perhaps
you had a difficult childhood playing with other kids. Did you take your
ball away when you did not get your way?? You need to learn to overcome
rejection (as all good salemen have to). If you belive in yourself
and your opinion can be defended that DO so! Else please DO pick up your
marbles before you lose them!  Regards, Peter Soltesz.

{Pls. excuse the spelling errors, the link is acting up]

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, Tibor Odor wrote:

> Dear Hungarian Lobby,
> 
> Due to the fact that my opinion is completely rejected on by the HL
> on the Soros issue I am seriously think about the possibility that 
> I unsubscribe from the HL list. 
> 
> Although I am completely aware of the fact that HL is not a debating 
> society, I found the Soros question so fundamental that I had to test the 
> general opinion of the HL on it. I wanted to warn the HL that
> HL will be against the interst of the vast majority of the Hungarian 
> society if it supports re-settlements of Eastern European refugees
> to Hungary. I will always fight against this and those who support
> this issue. If HL will do that I will fight HL.
> 
> I think, it is not a "debate". It is a real issue. If HL regards
> this to be a debate, I misunderstood something. In that case sorry for 
> the inconveniences.
> 
> In my opinion the relationship to Soros, Tom Lantos, Andrew Sarlos
> and the other wrongdoers is one of the most fundamental question 
> in present day Hungarian politics, and is fundamental from the point 
> of view of the future of the Hungarians all over the world.
> This is a general opinion of almost every people in Hungary who is
> not on the side of the present libaral-bolschevik elite.
> And even the average MSZP supporters oppose this.
> 
> The general opinion of the HL on this question and on several other
> questions I found to be too close to SZDSZ (Free Democrats).
> The word "Democrat" in their name I find very misleading.)
> Sometimes I felt that HL is only an other trial of the SZDSZ to 
> steal an other Hungarian Institution, and to fool Hungarians not 
> only in Hungary but in the USA too. I hope very much that I am wrong.
> 
> Soros is not a philantropist. There are evidence that using his funds
> brought out more money from the country than he gave. Not mentioning
> the extremely bad consequences of his one-sided funding policy.
> 
> I think we should oust him and the several other wrongdoers from 
> Hungary, like many other country. And I think that HL and any other
> really Hungarian organizations should not support the reelection of
> Tom Lantos and similar people in the USA. Even if Lantos call
> himself Hungarian. We can not be so stupid, that we accept
> everybody who says that he/she is Hungarian, while he/she works
> against the most fundamental Hungarian interests.
> (If Gheorgiu Funar say that he is Hungarian,  would you accept him to be
> Hungarian? I think not. But Soros, Lantos, Sarlos and the others are even
> worst than Funar.)
> 
> Because it seems to me that the HL is ---at least on this very day ---
> completely on the side of Soros, at least in the National Debt vs 
> Resettlement question, and I am completely aware of the wrong 
> relationships of the Hunagarian right-wing parties and people like h
> im, I think, my duty is to inform them (the right-wing parties, namely MDF 
> (Lezsak wing), FKGP, KDNP (Fuzessy-Giczy wing) and MIEP), the Hungarian 
> parties in the neighbouring countries and other political friends of 
> mine about this extremely sad fact. I also will use my influence on 
> certain not liberal-bolschevik weaklies to inform their readers 
> about the real political stance of HL on this and other controversial issue.
> 
> I hope, there will be a serious change in the policy and the opinion of 
> the HL on this issue before I have to do these very inconvenient but 
> necessary steps, which seems to be unavoidable in the present situation.
> 
> The relationship of HL and Soros and the other wrongdoers may have 
> substantial influence on the relationship of HL and those political
> movements who really works on behalf of the Hungarians.
> 
> I think, the HL should seriously think about this issue. Because
> there are several people on the HL list who has really good 
> intentions---even if they opinion is different of mine---, 
> I hope they will change their mind and realize the importance of
> this question and they achieve substantial change in the policy of the HL. 
> Under the present situation I do not want to participate in it,
> because I feel that my opinion is completely rejected.
> 
> I do not think that the so called "Nepfront" policy will work. We should
> oust our worst enemies, even if they call themselves or even if they
> are Hungarians.
> 
> This is the only policy which can work against those people who so strongly
> support and participate in the sell-out of the country and in the complete
> occupation of the Hungarian media and press, not mentioning the supportation 
> of the almost fatal policy on Hungarian minorities of the present and the 
> previous governement.
> 
> If the vast majority of people regard Soros and the other people mentioned
> above to be Hungarian, I do not want to be that. But I think that this
> is not the case, at least in present day Hungary. (Is it possible that
> the situation is different in the USA?)
> 
> I accept the suggestion of Gotthard Saghi-Szabo and on my part I close 
> further discussion of this---and may be any other---issue on the HL list,
> unless several people does not say the opposite. We can continue the 
> discussion on the Hungarian-American list, if you are interested.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dr. Tibor Odor (PhD in math)
> Bolyai Institute, Szeged
> and
> Mathematical Institute of the
> Hungarian Academy of Sciences,
> Budapest
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

From: Gotthard Saghi-Szabo >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:39:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HL: *** Error messages on HAL ***

Dear Members,
I am resending my earlier posting on HAL to this list, since the HAL list 
is still experiencing some difficulties, and, I know there are many 
subscribers who use both lists. Once again, this problem has 
not been caused by us, "Hungarians". The UMCP Computer Center skewed up 
things quite a bit.
Best regards,
Gotthard

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 08:19:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Gotthard Saghi-Szabo >
To: Hungarian American List >
Subject: *** Error messages ***

Dear List Members!
We are very sorry about this unfortunate incident. I just realized what 
happened when I got up this morning (it occured during the night). We did 
not do anything at the list, the Computer Center administrators must have 
done something with nameserver, mailalias entries. The error messages you 
received should go (and they did go so far, for almost three years) - to 
the list owners address - which is currently  .
Again, this is our first accident in our third year. The problem seem to 
be solved by now. Please, accept my apologies. If you want to know more, 
please, contact Joe Sackett > at the Computer 
Science Center. 
Thank you for your understanding. 
Best regards,
Gotthard
- --
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/



------------------------------

From:  (Fred Hamori)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 07:33:08 -0800
Subject: Re: HL: Sustainable development

I can only say to this well written, but more importantly well thought out
article that
it was a pleasure to read it and feel its message. To know that I and many
other silent 
persons are not alone in our feeling of abandonment in a society that is
concerned only
with personal profit and self aggrandizement and does not even have time to
smell the 
roses and thank god for the beauty and splendor of nature... which sustained
us and helped
to shape us. 

Is this all there is? A lifetime of toil for the benefit of a small number
of super
rich for whom all the riches of the world are not enough? All the power over
others is not
enough?  No this is not a local or ethnic problem but a very real universal
human condition
today. A problem that only makes more intollerable the Hungarian condition
because of
its one sided inhuman face. Where people are just a burden rather than an
asset. Only the
profit margin matters so that progressively all levels of society are being
pushed out of work
by automation and reduced to dependancy status... A very dangerous and scary
predicament.
Fred Hamori


------------------------------

From: Peter Kovalszki >
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 1996 07:40:47 -0500
Subject: HL: Panhandle Pages - FBS Senate Email Address List

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------403B274854D7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.digital-cafe.com/~webmaster/senate.html
Here I send a newly found complete US Senate e-mail addresslist, I had 
incomplete one. PK

- --------------403B274854D7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="senate.html"

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<A NAME="top"></A>
<CENTER><H1>FARNSWORTH BUSINESS SERVICES</H1></CENTER>
<CENTER>PRESENTS</CENTER>
<CENTER><STRONG>THE FEDERAL SENATE EMAIL LIST</STRONG></CENTER>
<CENTER><IMG SRC="gradiate.gif"></CENTER>
<P>
<BODY>
    As a public Service, Farnsworth Business Services offer
s the complete list of US Senators and their email addresses. Use the email add
resses provided herein to express your pleasure or displeasure to your elected 
representatives. <
P>

    If you intend to express your displeasure with one or m
ore of your elected representatives, we offer the following suggestions in orde
r to preserve your sanity and prevent you from becoming the target of someone's
 investigation. No
te that the people that are charged with the responsibility for our Senators sa
fety are not known for their sense of humor and by mandate, must take threats s
eriously, even <STRONG><EM>IF</EM></STRONG> you were joking at the time.<P>
<HR>
When writing to any elected official, be he/she state/local or federal, do the 
following;

<OL>
<LH></LH>
<LI><STRONG>Never threaten. It's ok to say something like "if you don't shape u
p, you will not get my vote next time your term is up!", but you can't say "I a
m going to give you a fat lip!"</STRONG>
<LI><STRONG>Include your email and regular mailing addresses when corresponding
 to your official. Anonymous emails are usually ignored.</STRONG>
<LI><STRONG>State clearly at the beginning of the email, the issue which concer
ns you, if you want to expand upon your reasoning, do so, AFTER you have stated
 your position.</STRONG>
<LI><STRONG>Remember that the odds are against you, having the Senator personal
ly read the email. It' is very likely that a member of his staff will read the 
email and you will recieve a form email response in return.</STRONG>
</OL>
<P>
<HR>
    With these cautions in mind, Farnsworth Business Servic
es is pleased to present the Senate Email List for 1996. If you find this page 
useful, <A HREF="mailto:, ">drop us 
a note</A> telling
 us about it, and don't forget to visit some of the services offered online by 
Farnsworth Business Services!<P>
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<HR>
<CENTER><H1>THE U.S. SENATE EMAIL LIST</H1></CENTER>
<HR>
<PRE>
AK  Stevens, Ted		<a href=mailto:>senator_ste
</a>  
AR  Bumpers, Dale		<a href=mailto:
nate.gov</a>
AZ  Kyl, Jon			<a href=mailto:</a>
AZ  McCain, John		<a href=mailto:>senator_mccai
</a>
CA  Boxer, Barbara		<a href=mailto:
e.gov</a>
CA  Feinstein, Dianne		<a href=mailto:
stein.senate.gov</a> 
CO  Brown, Hank 		<a href=mailto:>senator_brown@b
rown.senate.gov</a> 
CT  Dodd, Christopher J.	<a href=mailto:.
senate.gov</a> 
CT  Lieberman, Joseph I.	<a href=mailto:>
</a> 
DE  Biden, Jr., Joseph R.	<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a> 
FL  Graham, Bob			<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a>
GA  Coverdell, Paul		<a href=mailto:>sena
</a>
IA  Grassley, Chuck		<a href=mailto:>chuck_gr
</a>
IA  Harkin, Tom			<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a>
ID  Craig, Larry E.		<a href=mailto:>larry_craig@cr
aig.senate.gov</a>
ID  Kempthorne, Dirk		<a href=mailto:>dirk
</a>
IL  Moseley-Braun, Carol	<a href=mailto:>senato
</a>
IL  Simon, Paul			<a href=mailto:.
gov</a>
KY  Ford, Wendell H.		<a href=mailto:>wendell_ford@
ford.senate.gov</a>
KY  McConnell, Mitch		<a                                               href=mai
lto:</a>
LA  Breaux, John B.		<a href=mailto:
nate.gov</a>
LA  Johnston, J. Bennett	<a href=mailto:
nston.senate.gov</a>
MA  Kennedy, Edward M.		<a href=mailto:
dy.senate.gov</a>
MA  Kerry, John F.		<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a>
MD  Mikulski, Barbara A.	<a href=mailto:
ulski.senate.gov</a>
MD  Sarbanes, Paul S.		<a href=mailto:
nes.senate.gov</a>
ME  Cohen, William S.		<a href=mailto:
n.senate.gov</a>
MI  Abraham, Spencer		<a href=mailto:
am.senate.gov</a>
MI  Levin, Carl			<a href=mailto:.
gov</a>
MN  Grams, Rod			<a href=mailto:
nate.gov</a>
MN  Wellstone, Paul		<a href=mailto:
one.senate.gov</a>
MO  Ashcroft, John		<a href=mailto:>john_ashcr
</a>
MS  Cochran, Thad		<a href=mailto:
nate.gov</a>
MT  Baucus, Max			<a href=mailto:</a
>
MT  Burns, Conrad		<a href=mailto:>conrad_burns@bu
rns.senate.gov</a>
NC  Faircloth, Lauch		<a href=mailto:
loth.senate.gov</a>
NC  Helms, Jesse		<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a>
ND  Dorgan, Byron L.		<a href=mailto:
enate.gov</a> 
NE  Kerrey, J. Robert		<a href=mailto:
ov</a>
NH  Gregg, Judd			<a href=mailto:.
gov</a>  
NH  Smith, Bob			<a href=mailto:
ov</a>
NJ  Bradley, Bill		<a href=mailto:
nate.gov</a>
NM  Bingaman, Jeff		<a href=mailto:>senator
</a>
NM  Domenici, Pete V.		<a href=mailto:>sena
</a>
NV  Reid, Harry			<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a>
NY  D'Amato, Alfonse M.		<a href=mailto:>senator_al
@damato.senate.gov</a>  
NY  Moynihan, Daniel Patrick	<a                                          href=m
ailto:</a>
OH  DeWine, Mike		<a href=mailto:>senator_dewin
</a>
PA  Santorum, Rick		<a                                          href=mailto:sen
</a>
PA  Specter, Arlen		<a href=mailto:>senator_s
</a>
RI  Chafee, John H.		<a href=mailto:>senator_ch
</a>
SC  Hollings, Ernest F.		<a href=mailto:
lings.senate.gov</a>
SC  Thurmond, Strom		<a href=mailto:
d.senate.gov</a>
SD  Daschle, Thomas A.		<a href=mailto:>tom_dasch
</a>
SD  Pressler, Larry		<a href=mailto:>larry_pr
</a>  
TN  Frist, Bill			<a href=mailto:>senator_frist@f
rist.senate.gov</a>
TN  Thompson, Fred		<a         href=mailto:
</a>
TX  Hutchison, Kay Bailey	<a href=mailto:>senator@h
utchison.senate.gov</a>
UT  Hatch, Orrin G.		<a href=mailto:>senator_hatc
</a>
VA  Robb, Charles S.		<a href=mailto:
e.gov</a> 
VA  Warner, John W.		<a href=mailto:
nate.gov</a>
VT  Jeffords, James M.		<a href=mailto:
ords.senate.gov</a>
VT  Leahy, Patrick J.		<a href=mailto:>senator_le
</a>
WA  Gorton, Slade		<a href=mailto:>senator_gort
</a>
WA  Murray, Patty		<a href=mailto:>senator_murr
</a>
WI  Feingold, Russell D.	<a href=mailto:
ngold.senate.gov</a>
WI  Kohl, Herb			<a href=mailto:.
senate.gov</a>
WV  Rockefeller IV, John D.	<a href=mailto:>senat
</a>
WY  Simpson, Alan K.		<a href=mailto:
.senate.gov</a>
<HR>
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------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:43:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HL: Anthony Malzanek: Hungarians in Romania (8)

	 (Anthony Malzanek)

For a better understanding of the Hungarian minority in Romania:
( 8th posting: Minority Culture)



      THE SITUATION OF MINORITY CULTURE IN ROMANIA
      ============================================  

  1. The period between 1918-1944:
     ============================

  After 1918 the Hungarian minority culture in Romania came into being 
  without the assistance of the Romanian State as a sequel to the 
  national culture. Its self-organizing institutionalization was hindered and 
  severely censored.

  - The Hungarian University in Cluj Napoca with 56 departments, in 63 new
  buildings, with collections, museums and a library consisting of 
  400,000 books became the property of the Romanian State.
  Hungarian language could only be used in teaching Hungarian 
  language and literature.

  - Hungarian literary life in Romania came into being through its own 
  resources in the circumstances of severe censorship.

  - In 1929, out of 1,417 public libraries providing public education 
  only 147 could function.

  - Aproximately 50 statues representing Hungarian or Austrian historical 
  personalities erected in public places were destroyed or demolished 
  and became the victims of the anti-Hungarian temper:

    - in Arad and Tirgu Mures representing Kossuth Lajos were demolished, 
    - the statue of Kulcsey in Satu Mare was blown up, 
    - that in Deva representing David Ferenc disappeared,
    - as well as in Cluj Napoca, representing the Hungarian Queen Elizabeth.
  
  Hungarians were deprived of rights that contribute to the preservation of
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  their national identity.
  ------------------------ 


  2. The period between 1944-1989
     ============================

  Culture became mere placing for censorship and state budget.
  -----------------------------------------------------------

 - The 1948 nationalization affected the remaining museums, libraries, 
  archives, houses of culture, religious or laic associations. 

 
  -The rich memorial documentation concerning Hungarian history was 
  taken away from the museums and deposited in warehouses 
  (e.g.relics of the Revolution of 1848 in Arad),

  - Likewise the old Hungarian painting collection (in the cellar of the
  Fine Arts  Museum in Cluj Napoca there are more than 200 Hungarian oil
  paintings dating from the last century) and the ethnographical material.
 
  These are all cultural documents that preserve ethnicity, self-identity 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  and strengthen self-consciousness.
  ---------------------------------
  
  - Due to the absence of bilingual inscriptions and 
  catalogues, and that the Hungarian specialists are neglected, the 
  museums became totally unfamiliar for the Hungarian public in 
  Transylvania, while for the Romanian visitors the Hungarian population, 
  living on this territory from beginnings of time, remains unknown.
  
  3. After 1989:
     ===========


  Changes brought about by the 1989 events did not accomplish the 
  expected abolition of communist nationalist anti-minority policy,
  not even on the level of tendencies:   
  
  -  the state budget allotted to culture is neither distributed in 
  accordance with the ratio of the ethnic minorities, nor remitted to their 
  self-administrative organizations;  
   
  - refund of formal properties belonging to the reorganized traditional 
  cultural associations (e.g. Transylvanian Carpathian Association, 
  the Association of Hungarian Smallholder in Transylvania, 
  the Transylvanian Hungarian General Educational Association) 
  is not a question of issue.     
  
  - The Transylvanian Museum Association cannot even move into        
  the building that appears under its name in the land register 
  (address: Cluj Napoca, 11 Libertatii Square);  
  
  - the archive law in preparation does not wish to return the     
  confiscated archives and makes impossible their study 
  (they are under the severe control of the Ministry of Interior). 
  
  In this way the study of the past history of the minorities, the     
  ----------------------------------------------------------------  
  preservation of their identity and the self-conscious preparation 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------  
  of their own future are hindered. 
  ---------------------------------


  4.Minimal rightful requests:
    ==========================

  The rightful request derives from the assessment of the following facts,
  namely:
  
  - the creation of an independent center for the study of Hungarians 
  (Institute for Hungarian studies), 
  
  - the foundation ofa museum exhibiting the culture of the Hungarian 
    minority in Transylvania
  
  - the return of the properties belonging to the different associations 
  
  - and the access to study the archives.

  (The Hungarian minority in Romania, through its representatives 
   submitted its rightful demands in a memorandum to the Ministry of Public
   Education and to the Minority Council in August, 1993;
   after 2 1/2 years: NO ANSWER).

  







------------------------------

From:  (Csaba Gaal)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:44:25 -0500
Subject: Re: HL: Re: HAL: Soros vs HL

Kedves Soltesz ur!

        Kerem olvassa el levelem e forumon, melyet Czifra Jancsinak irtam. 

 Onre is refer egy kis civilizaltabb viselkedes.


        (Hacsak nem legalabb olyan okos es szep, mint Odor ur. De legalabb
olyan okos.)

Udvozlettel,


Csaba



 


------------------------------

End of *** Hungarian Lobby Digest *** V1 #58
********************************************

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In article >,
 > wrote:
| Tamas wrote:
| 
| >AFAIK, the SF got the AVO's ex-headquater on Andrássy street for
| >covering the liability on gov't side. 
| 
| Now, after buying the archives of Radio Free Europe, there is this
| rather odd aquisition!  The former headquarters of the dreaded communist
| secret police, the AVO/AVH!  Does Soros perhaps know of some hidden
| secrets still buried in its dungeons he hopes to get his hands on before
| anybody else?  Why _THAT_ building of all places?  C'mon conspiracy
| theorists, help me out here a bit!  What's wrong with this picture? ;-)
| 
| Joe


I did a little research. Andrassy ut 60 was and is still
owned by CHEMOKOMPLEX(sp?), an import- export company.

Peter Kaszas > wrote:
>igazsagtalansagok, ez alol sajna egyik sem kivetel. Egyedul az utolso
>mondatoddal tudok egyeterteni (a szamadattol eltekintve). Teljes
>mertekben egyet kell ertenem Zsoter Andrissal, attol eltekintve, hogy
>engem nehezen nevezhetnek antiszemitanak, hiszen zsido vagyok...

Nem ez lenne az elso eset, Kaszi. Legfeljebb majd azt mondjak Rad, hogy
"yet another self-hating Jew." :-(

Pannon J.

> wrote:
>
>ooo... a nart critic! :-)

Who said it was a nart?

>and what the hell does my webpage have to do with a discussion on racism,
>pray tell?

In your case everything.  Once somebody has seen your Web page, your opinion
about _anything_ cannot possibly be taken seriously.

No most hadd jojjon a szokasos ideges vihogas:
>heh... you're a funny little man, joe... but FYI, my so called webpage is
>sponsored by the canada council media arts program.

Figures.  This kind of "art" (called so selfservingly only by the
perpetrators themselves) could not sustain itself but through the forced
support by taxpayers.  NEH does a lot of that, too, in the US.
>
>and since i really really don't think you to have the neccessary
>background to discourse on the merits or demerits of my, or for that
>matter, anyone elses work, alas <sniff>, we come to the end of our
>friendly repartee...

Is that a promise or a threat?  I'll hold you to it.  But watch out if
you ever use my name again!

>you're but a little smidgen on my horizon, joe, and look what you have
>done! you have erased yourself!

Wow!  What an artful prose!  With such a talent, I can't fathom why you
are so shy spelling out your name at the end of your letters ...
No wonder so many people take you for a guy.
>
>bye bye joe

Ba' bye, gorgeous!

>http://www.knosso.com/NWHQ/

Yes, I hope a lot of people will visit your "art".

Over and out,
Joe Pannon

Peter Kaszas > wrote:
>
>A sztori tetszik, de a valaszodbol nem derul ki egyertelmuen, hogy az
>vagy-e. En mar nem merem megkerdezni, mert felek, hogy nekem is
>hasonlot valaszolsz, es a csunya beszedtol en sirogorcsot kapok...
>
Mar ne haragudj, de milyen valaszt vartal egy provokativ kerdesre?
Te orulnel annak, ha valaki megkerdezne toled, hogy szoktad-e verni a
feleseged?

Pannon J.

In article >
Tibor Pasztor,  writes:
>Ezt nem ertem. Mi az, hogy "joerzesu fasiszta"???

A fasiszta es naci nem ugyanaz. Mondjuk a nagyatkos ideologiai
platformjarol szemlelve persze egyik kutya, a masik eb. :) :)

Ha osszemosod a ket kategoriat, ugyan mondd meg mar hova fo-
god besuvasztani az olasz neofasizmust, amely elfogadja a
parlamenti jatekszabalyokat, sot akar kormanypart lehet megint
a valasztasaok utan. Vagy mondjuk mit kezdesz Buchanannel ?

Tamas

 (Peter Szaszvari) wrote:
>Oke, de mi a valasz a kerdesre?

In article > sodrem,  writes:
>   Oh..what liberality(oops..) of language ....really...
> -- brilliant reasoning!...what sophistication!

Peter Kaszas:
>A sztori tetszik, de a valaszodbol nem derul ki egyertelmuen, hogy az
>vagy-e.

A magyar nyelvet gyengebben beszelok kedveert elarulom,
hogy a kifogasolt mondat nyelvtanilag a "nem vagyok naci !"
szinonimaja.

Tamas

Are any readers of this group willing to assist in translating
some letters written in Hungarian?  The letters were written
by my grandmother to my father, and we have been wondering for
some years what is contained within them. 

There are about 25 letters in all, some written by typewriter, 
other handwritten, averaging about 2-3 pages each.  The content 
is not complex or technical, but deals with the daily details 
of my grandmother's life.  Our reason for wanting them 
translated is to find any hints of unkwnown relatives 
or family friends.

Any assistance or suggestions are welcome. 
Norbert Kremer       

*** Hungarian American List Digest ***   Fri, 8 Mar 1996  Vol 03 No 065

ATTENTION! The Hungarian American List Digest mailing list is available!

      ***   Greetings from the Hungarian American List      ***
      ***                                                   ***
      *** subs/unsubs info:     ***
      *** send articles to:             ***
      *** www:              http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/ ***
      *** directory:        http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/     ***

In this issue:

	HAL: Hungarian Restaurants in New York
	HAL: Maria Valeria Bridge
	HAL: Re: *** Hungarian American List Digest ***  V3 #53
	HAL: *** Error messages ***
	HAL: What happened...
	HAL: To P A Soltesz
	HAL: To P A Soltesz
	HAL: Sleazy tabloids & foreign owners
	HAL: Hungarian get-together in San Francisco, CA, Friday, March 8
	HAL: A little fact about Soros is justified
	HAL: Re: Soros wrongdoings---a short list
	HAL: Anthony Malzanek: Hungarians in Romania (8)
	HAL: *** CET On-Line *** Mar/6/95 ***
	HAL: *** CET On-Line *** Mar/7/95 ***
	HAL: Tanchaz - Hungarian Dance & Music 3/9/96, College Park, MD
	Re: HAL: A message for Dr. Odor
	HAL: Art Exhibit - Watercolors of Long Island

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the Hungarian
American List or Hungarian American List Digest mailing lists and on how 
to retrieve back issues.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 02:18:17 -0500
Subject: HAL: Hungarian Restaurants in New York

To All:

Can anyone recommend a good Hungarian restaurant in New York City?

Thanks, 

Kalman Pipo

------------------------------

From:  (A.J. Vadasz)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:23:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Maria Valeria Bridge

I reported some weeks ago re the prospects of rebuilding the Maria Valeria
bridge between Eszetergom and Parkany (Sturovo). I.e. across the Danube
between present-day Hungary and Slovakia. A Magyar Radio broadcast reported
on same, however the poor reception caused some of the details to be lost. I
subsequently asked the interviewer some questions, primarily relating to the
funding. His (Szecsoedy Peter) answer was received today via e-mail:

Kedves Vadasz Ur!
Rettenetesen sajnalom, hogy nem tudok igazan segitsegere lenni, mert 
a parkanyi polgarmester neve nem szerepel amagyar nyilvantartasokban.
A hid olyan szeles lesz, mint amilyen volt. A csekely forgalom elire- 
lathatoan nem fog torlodni rajta. Az ujjaepiteshez szuekseges oesszeg, 
mint az a riportomban is elhangzott, mar megvan. Nagy reszet a 
PHARE biztositja. Remelem maskor bivebb valasszal tudok a segitsegere 
sietni. Tovabbi jo radiozast kivanok OEnnek. Ismeretlenuel is uedvoezloem.
Szecsidy Peter

(I.e. the money is available and committed Other questions not answered).

Comment; contrary to the many discouraging Slovakia development, at last a
hopeful sign. The bridge will be the only one across the Danube between
Komarom and Budapest and will clearly increase contact possibilities between
the people on both left (Slovak) and right (Hungarian) side of the Danube.
We need to watch it to be sure there are no excuses for delaying the
project. As reported before, much of the credit goes to the mayor of
Sturovo, who - of Slovak parentage- worked hard to raise the funds. (I had
asked for his name, but Mr.Szecsoedy evidently does not have it. If any of
you do, let us know, along with his address.)  Andy 
A.J. Vadasz
5743 Pignut Mtn. Dr.
Warrenton VA 22186
USA T:540 349 1408



------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:40:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Re: *** Hungarian American List Digest ***  V3 #53

Dear Kelley Ted, I saw your communication concering low airfares for
teachers do you have more information on this.
Koz.
Eric

------------------------------

From: Gotthard Saghi-Szabo >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:47:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: *** Error messages ***

Dear List Members!
We are very sorry about this unfortunate incident. I just realized what 
happened when I got up this morning (it occured during the night). We did 
not do anything at the list, the Computer Center administrators must have 
done something with nameserver, mailalias entries. The error messages you 
received should go (and they did go so far, for almost three years) - to 
the list owners address - which is currently  .
Again, this is our first accident in our third year. The problem seem to 
be solved by now. Please, accept my apologies. If you want to know more, 
please, contact Joe Sackett > . 
Thank you for your understanding. 
Best regards,
Gotthard
- --
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

------------------------------

From: Gotthard Saghi-Szabo >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:47:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: What happened...

Here it is, and, again sooooorrrrrryyyyyyy.....

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:53:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Joseph M. Sackett >
To: Gotthard Saghi-Szabo >
Subject: What happened.

Well, where do I start, first I'm sorry.

What had happened occurred when I made a change to the list that we
hoped would get rid of some of the multiple mailings to users.  When I
configured the change, it wanted an address to stick in the From: line,
so I put , however instead of using it as the
From: line it used it as the Sender address.  The Sender address, as
you can painfully see, is where the mail gets bounced to.  I realized
this after I get the first bounce from my mail that I sent to the list
come back to the list.

I fixed the problem after the first bounce, but for an unrelated
reason, the aliases did not get reloaded until 6 am, leaving all the
mail that bounced go back to the list and so on.

Things seem to be back to normal now, and I'm very sorry for all the
trouble that was caused.

Feel free to send this explanation and most of all my apologies to
the list.  At this point, I think they have had enough mail from me.

- - Joe



------------------------------

From: Tibor Odor >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:30:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: To P A Soltesz

Dear Mr Soltesz,

Please do not deal with my childhood and other personal issues, otherwise
[some note is omitted here].

So, my suggestion is to remain at the subject of my posts. Probably
you have a different concept about the re-settlement question.
I am not sure that I was able to understad your position in this question,
but I think you spoke about Hungarians.

I did not. I spoke about those people who have left Eastern-Europe,
mainly Russia and Ukraina.

Tibor Odor


------------------------------

From: Tibor Odor >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 19:28:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: To P A Soltesz

Dear Mr Soltesz,

Please do not deal with my childhood and other personal issues, otherwise
[some note is omitted here].

So, my suggestion is to remain at the subject of my posts. Probably
you have a different concept about the re-settlement question.
I am not sure that I was able to understad your position in this question,
but I think you spoke about Hungarians.

I did not. I spoke about those people who have left Eastern-Europe,
mainly Russia and Ukraina.

Tibor Odor


------------------------------

From: "Szabo, James J., 1Lt" >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:44:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Sleazy tabloids & foreign owners

James Szabo writes:

>>Sandor -- I don't think Americans would care much if the Los Angeles Times 

>>were Japanese owned; we already have plenty of Rupert Murdoch owned
tabloids
>>in our grocery stores.  I think he's Australian.

In general it is true. But I did hear complaints about Rupert Murdoch,
that he is too involved with politics. (This was on All things Considered"
NPR). And the distrust toward japanese is greater. Also I seemed to have
heard,
(I could be mistaken) that the news media, cannot
be under foreign ownership. Murdoch is an exception, since he does have
a domocile in the US.

Sandor Lengyel
Orange 714-771-2655

About hungarian restaurants in L.A.

Hortobagy on Ventura, in Studio City, Csarda in Los Angeles somwhere,
Sandor's (not I) in Glendora.

Of course St. Stepen's Church on Woodlawn. (Every sunday).




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------------------------------

From: Tony and Celia Becker >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 21:51:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Hungarian get-together in San Francisco, CA, Friday, March 8

One of these year's I'm going to actually get both notice, and important
details, of an event more than 5 days before--and I'll faint.  My apologies
to anyone else for this very late posting, as a result of some details only
becoming known today.

OK, for those who live within the larger northern California metropolitan areas
:

The Hungarian Consul-General, Dr. Imre Helyes, will be giving a "state of
Hungary" speech for members (and friends) of the Hungarian American Chamber
of Commerce, San Francisco area chapter, on Friday evening, March 8.  A
dinner is included, for those who can and wish to attend that portion.
Dinner costs $23 for members and $26 for non-members.

The location is the Big Sky Ranch Restaurant (old Paprikas Fonos--and it
still has a Hungarian menu in addition to a "western" menu); Ghirardelli
Square, 900 North Point Blvd. (fifth floor,southwest corner of complex).

Reception is at 6 p.m.; dinner at 7 p.m.; speech at 8 p.m.

RSVP is to the honorary consul and current President of HACC, Eva Voisin, at
tel: 415-595-0444; fax: 415-595-3976.  If you are intending to come for
dinner, call or fax ASAP--like before noon California time Friday March 8.

EXTRA HIGHLIGHT--IMPORTANT PLEASE NOTE: we have a very strong possibility of
the major Republican candidate running for the 14th Congressional seat being
in attendance at this event.  His name is Benjamin Macalester Brink, and he
already has prior interests in Hungary.  Besides being a CEO of a small
high-tech start-up company, and having previous high-tech and venture
capital experience; he has also been an officer in the U.S. Navy and
Reserve.  He currently still holds the rank of "commander" in the USNR and
has members of his unit currently serving in both Hungary and Bosnia--and he
just trained them for this special assignment.  He is also personally a
friend of both William Perry--yes, _that_ William Perry and George
Schultz--yes _that_ George Schultz.

Upon his election in November, Ben could be a powerful voice on behalf of
Hungarian concerns in the U.S. Congress--and have even greater additional
influence through his Naval connections in the Administration... Ben's
campaign office has said they believe he and his wife will be coming to this
event.  Thus this will be an excellent opportunity for Hungarian Americans,
particularly from the Southwest SF Bay area to become acquainted with this
candidate, in a smaller group setting, where you might get to enjoy
lengthier conversations than elections usually permit.

Sincerely,


Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
San Jose, CA, USA
e-mail: 




N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA


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------------------------------

From: Tibor Odor >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 10:33:52 +0100
Subject: HAL: A little fact about Soros is justified

On March 7 Janos Zsargo > on the 
Hungarian American List (HAL) with Subject:      About Soros. wrote:

>Tibor Odor wrote:

>>But you simply ignored the strong points in my argument. There is a strong
>>and easily verifyable statement about the text written to the check mentioned
>>in my previous writing on this issue. You wants facts---naturally,
>>you think, you have only the right to decide what is a fact.
>>
>>I think, this question is very simple. You have to go to the Szabo Ervin
>> Library
>>and to ask a check for the payment of the TOEFL exame. That is all.

>The story about these checks is true (I guess they call them voucher or
>something like that). I paid my TOEFL exam with this check. I had to pay
>the amount in hungarian currency and enclose this voucher to my application.

That is what I wanted to prove.

>But I am sorry I do not understand how does this prove your points? Even if
>Soros does some tax manipulation with these checks it still does not prove
>the other points.

It is true. But after this story no one can regard Soros as a hero.
Here is a small little spot which will increase its size soon.

I think, J. Zsargo's contribution was very valuable. Thanks for that!

Tibor Odor

>I also have to mention here, that I had a very good experience with the
>Soros Foundation. I could go to Canada by the IAESTE three years ago.
>Unfortunatelly I had to pay the travel expenses, which is quite painful
>for a simple student in Hungary. Finally I ended at the Soros Foundation
>and got the necessery money within a week. And I am neither Jewish nor has
>connection to the SZDSZ.
>
>Janos Zsargo


------------------------------

From:  (Sandor Lengyel x2495)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:38:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Re: Soros wrongdoings---a short list

>> Whatever Mr Odor says, the simple fact remains that many Hungarians
>>resent Soros "helping" with the finances of the country straight and simply
>>because he is Jewish. No if`s and but`s.

I disagree. I feel that the above statement could be rewritten as:

>> that many Hungarians
>>resent Soros "helping" with the finances of the country straight and simply
>>because he is hungarian and an emigree. 

His jewishness is only secondary. :-)


Sandor


------------------------------

From: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 13:43:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Anthony Malzanek: Hungarians in Romania (8)

For a better understanding of the Hungarian minority in Romania:
( 8th posting: Minority Culture)

      THE SITUATION OF MINORITY CULTURE IN ROMANIA
      ============================================  

  1. The period between 1918-1944:
     ============================

  After 1918 the Hungarian minority culture in Romania came into being 
  without the assistance of the Romanian State as a sequel to the 
  national culture. Its self-organizing institutionalization was hindered and 
  severely censored.

  - The Hungarian University in Cluj Napoca with 56 departments, in 63 new
  buildings, with collections, museums and a library consisting of 
  400,000 books became the property of the Romanian State.
  Hungarian language could only be used in teaching Hungarian 
  language and literature.

  - Hungarian literary life in Romania came into being through its own 
  resources in the circumstances of severe censorship.

  - In 1929, out of 1,417 public libraries providing public education 
  only 147 could function.

  - Aproximately 50 statues representing Hungarian or Austrian historical 
  personalities erected in public places were destroyed or demolished 
  and became the victims of the anti-Hungarian temper:

    - in Arad and Tirgu Mures representing Kossuth Lajos were demolished, 
    - the statue of Kulcsey in Satu Mare was blown up, 
    - that in Deva representing David Ferenc disappeared,
    - as well as in Cluj Napoca, representing the Hungarian Queen Elizabeth.
  
  Hungarians were deprived of rights that contribute to the preservation of
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  their national identity.
  ------------------------ 


  2. The period between 1944-1989
     ============================

  Culture became mere placing for censorship and state budget.
  -----------------------------------------------------------

 - The 1948 nationalization affected the remaining museums, libraries, 
  archives, houses of culture, religious or laic associations. 

 
  -The rich memorial documentation concerning Hungarian history was 
  taken away from the museums and deposited in warehouses 
  (e.g.relics of the Revolution of 1848 in Arad),

  - Likewise the old Hungarian painting collection (in the cellar of the
  Fine Arts  Museum in Cluj Napoca there are more than 200 Hungarian oil
  paintings dating from the last century) and the ethnographical material.
 
  These are all cultural documents that preserve ethnicity, self-identity 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  and strengthen self-consciousness.
  ---------------------------------
  
  - Due to the absence of bilingual inscriptions and 
  catalogues, and that the Hungarian specialists are neglected, the 
  museums became totally unfamiliar for the Hungarian public in 
  Transylvania, while for the Romanian visitors the Hungarian population, 
  living on this territory from beginnings of time, remains unknown.
  
  3. After 1989:
     ===========


  Changes brought about by the 1989 events did not accomplish the 
  expected abolition of communist nationalist anti-minority policy,
  not even on the level of tendencies:   
  
  -  the state budget allotted to culture is neither distributed in 
  accordance with the ratio of the ethnic minorities, nor remitted to their 
  self-administrative organizations;  
   
  - refund of formal properties belonging to the reorganized traditional 
  cultural associations (e.g. Transylvanian Carpathian Association, 
  the Association of Hungarian Smallholder in Transylvania, 
  the Transylvanian Hungarian General Educational Association) 
  is not a question of issue.     
  
  - The Transylvanian Museum Association cannot even move into        
  the building that appears under its name in the land register 
  (address: Cluj Napoca, 11 Libertatii Square);  
  
  - the archive law in preparation does not wish to return the     
  confiscated archives and makes impossible their study 
  (they are under the severe control of the Ministry of Interior). 
  
  In this way the study of the past history of the minorities, the     
  ----------------------------------------------------------------  
  preservation of their identity and the self-conscious preparation 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------  
  of their own future are hindered. 
  ---------------------------------


  4.Minimal rightful requests:
    ==========================

  The rightful request derives from the assessment of the following facts,
  namely:
  
  - the creation of an independent center for the study of Hungarians 
  (Institute for Hungarian studies), 
  
  - the foundation ofa museum exhibiting the culture of the Hungarian 
    minority in Transylvania
  
  - the return of the properties belonging to the different associations 
  
  - and the access to study the archives.

  (The Hungarian minority in Romania, through its representatives 
   submitted its rightful demands in a memorandum to the Ministry of Public
   Education and to the Minority Council in August, 1993;
   after 2 1/2 years: NO ANSWER).

  







------------------------------

From: Hungarian American List >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:21:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: *** CET On-Line *** Mar/6/95 ***

Posted to Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.usa

------------------------------

From: Hungarian American List >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 14:21:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: *** CET On-Line *** Mar/7/95 ***

Posted to Newsgroups: soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.usa

------------------------------

From: "Arpad F. Kovacs" >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:25:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Tanchaz - Hungarian Dance & Music 3/9/96, College Park, MD

Event on: March 9, 1996

Tanchaz Place:

 College Park, MD (USA) -  whithin the Washington D.C. Beltway
 Starting Point Dance Studio . From I495 take Route 1 South
 toward College Park . After passing the UM complex , make a left
 onto Calvert Rd. The studio is in the first building on your right,
 behind Clean and Lean Laudromat/Fitness Center

Admission: $4 ($3 for Tisza members)

Time:  7:30 pm until 10:30 pm 

Contact: Cathy Lamont (301)-929-0120

****Ask about tickets to the Muzsikas - Marta Sebestyen concert! 



- --
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kovacs
personal email     : 



------------------------------

From: "Szabo, James J., 1Lt" >
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 15:55:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: HAL: A message for Dr. Odor

Thank you, GB.

As a new subscriber to this list, I can only comment on the dialogue of the 
past two weeks.  Please enlighten me if I make any mistakes.

It seems to me that George Soros' actions are understandable, given his 
background.  As I understand it, he is an American who emigrated from 
Hungary around 1956 and made a fortune on the stock market.  Now that 
communism is dead, Soros has returned to Hungary.  It seems he hopes to 
support liberal market and political reforms with his substantial personal 
fortune, thus ensuring that totalitarians (e.g. communists, fascists) and 
racists (like the one's who cooperated with Hitler) never again control the 
county of his birth.   Someone stated that he "hates Hungarians," which is 
absurd given this personal history.

If Hungarians are willing to accept the philanthropy, or whatever you call 
it, of George Soros, then they will have to do it on his terms.  The 
arguement seems to be about whether those terms are unacceptable.  It's a 
perfectly legitimate auguement.

Some more thoughts:   I am disheartened by all this talk of ethnic 
minorities.  If you wish to end up like Yugoslavia, keep it up.

Sandor -- I don't think Americans would care much if the Los Angeles Times 
were Japanese owned; we already have plenty of Rupert Murdoch owned tabloids 
in our grocery stores.  I think he's Australian.

One more thing:  Does anyone know of ANY Hungarian restaurant in Los 
Angeles?

J. Szabo
Los Angeles
 ----------
From: owner-hungary
To: hungary
Subject: Re: HAL: A message for Dr. Odor
Date: Wednesday, March 06, 1996 6:25PM

>Unlike closed societies dominated by the state, open societies are
>characterized by a reliance on the rule of law, the existance of a
>democratically  elected government, a diverse and vigorous civil
>society, respect for minorities and minority opinions, and a free
>market economy.  A closed society expends most of its energies in
>preserving the existing order, whereas an open society takes law and
>respect for the rights of others as its starting point and creates
>progress and prosperity from that base.
>
>quote taken from "Building Open Societies", Soros Foundations Annual
>Report, 1994.


Communists and fascists in Eastern Europe, proponents of  closed
totalitarian regimes,  attack Soros exactly for his advocacy of open
society.  When Dr. Odor calls this message garbage he puts himself squarely
in the company of  the enemies of democracy in Slovakia, Serbia,  Rumania,
and in Hungary.

GB




------------------------------

From:  (J. Tar)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 16:53:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: HAL: Art Exhibit - Watercolors of Long Island

(MARCH 1, 1996)  
 
LASZLO TAR EXHIBIT: LONG ISLAND 
 
The Laszlo Tar Gallery is proud to open a new addition to it's fine art
collection, entitled "Watercolors of Long Island". 
 
Laszlo Tar's Long Island collection  represents  one  of his largest, most
interesting and beautiful series of landscapes.  He began painting sections
of Long Island in the early 1980's. He and his son would travel the region
by car, often leaving before sunrise. As Mr. Tar painted, his son would
explore the region in search of new scenic spots. In 1989, his son moved to
the town of Huntington, where Laszlo would continue his work. 
 
Organized in three segments -- "Harbors & Marine Scenes", "Village Streets"
and "Village Parks" -- the exhibit journeys the beautiful and scenic north
shore harbor villages of Roslyn, Oyster Bay, Cold Spring Harbor,
Huntington, Centerport, Northport and Port Jefferson.  
 
Mr. Tar has always been attracted to the romance of marine scenes and
village settings. He finds his favorite spots where ships, boats and
villagers are surrounded by the splendid rolling hills of the area. 
 
The Laszlo Tar Gallery is located at Web addresses: 
 
1. http://www.art.net/TheGallery/Tar/exhibit.htm   
 
2. http://www.jtar.com 
 
 
<END> 
 
 

------------------------------

End of *** Hungarian American List Digest ***  V3 #65
*****************************************************

> =============================================================================
==
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Dear SCM Readers,
The Hungarian American List Digest mailing list is ready to go :-)

Q: What is a digest list? 
A: The digest list will collect all of the mails sent to the Hungarian 
   American List during one day and send it out to you in a single mail.
   Just as e.g. the HIX services.  

Q: What are the advantages?
A: Less number of mails daily - one (although, the same volume).

Q: What are the disadvantages?
A: You are going to get the messages via the digest list less than a day 
   later than the regular HAL subscribers. 

Q: What about the regular HAL list?
A: It will stay in service just as before, the digest list will be its 
   extra service.

Q: Can I send messages to the digest list?
A: No, you have to send your messages to the HAL list. Then, those 
   messages will be collected at the end of the day, and will be sent out
   to the digest subscribers.

Q: How do I send messages to the HAL list, if I am a HAL Digest 
   subscriber?
A: Just as before, address your mail to: , or, 
   simply reply to the digest by using the address in the digest's 
   Reply-To: header. This is set to .

Q: How do I subscribe?
A: Send a mail to the  address, with no subject,
   in the body of your letter write
   subscribe hungary-digest
   If you are already subscribed to the HAL list, you can unsubscribe 
   from the list and subscribe to the digest in the same letter. In this 
   case, send a mail to the  address, with no 
   subject,   in the body of your letter write
   unsubscribe hungary
   subscribe hungary-digest

Q: What are those messages glued to my letters?
A: Those are temporary messages, trying to help you to switch to the 
   digest version. They will be removed in about a week.

Q: What if I still do not get it?
A: Send your question to the list, and we will try to answer it. This 
   way, others might also benefit from it.

Enjoy,
Gotthard
--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/


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The Hungarian American List digest is ready. To change to the
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unsubscribe hungary
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------------------! HAL-DIGEST LIST IS READY !-------------------

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
| In article > , 
| writes:
| >>I did a little research. Andrassy ut 60 was and is still
| >>owned by CHEMOKOMPLEX(sp?), an import- export company. 
| 
| >Darn!  There goes my latest conspiracy theory!  It looked so promising
| >though, no?
| 
| >Tamas, I can't trust you anymore. You've ruined my whole day.
| 
| Joe & Istvan, 
| 
| Sorry about that, it seems I misunderstood something in the
| report. But the SF must have at least one building on the And-
| rássy street which was shownbecause I've recognised the place.
| 
| It may be checked easily, anyway. What is the adress of the
| CEU or its rectorat ? Istvan, could you also check that, please ?
| 
| Tamas

SF may have buildings on Andrassy street - it is a LONG
street.
It's HQ is in the castle area though - Uri utca I think.

Their Budapest location is Nador u. 9, according to
<http://www.soros.org/ceu.html>; (there's also <http://www.ceu.hu>;, which
does not show an address as far as I could find). 

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

KC2: Dudley+ (Grubor+)*2 (Fomin+++)/3 (cjames++)*3 
     Iatskovski- (Petersen--)/2

SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

Deutsch:

    Ich liebe Dich !

    Thomas

-- 
Thomas Schmidt     | Email:  | Phone: +49-30-7829537
Leuthener Str. 4a  |[Email: ]    | Fax:   +49-30-7828103
D-10829 Berlin     |                                | Data:  +49-30-7828103

>>My father was born in Balassagyarmat, Hungary, during the 1930s.  Can
>>anyone tell me where Balassagyarmat was, and if it still exists today?
>>
>>Also, if it is no longer, how can I access my father's birth records?
>>Where?  Does anyone know?
>>
>>
>Good news, Val. Balassagyarmat, a small town with ca. 18,000 inhabitants
>does exist in county Nogra'd, at a distance of ca. 80 km to North of
>Budapest, our capital.
>I presume your dad's birth records are accessible either at the church he
>was christened in or at some of the offices of the town hall. I do not know
>the addresses, but if you send a letter to the town hall or the Mayor of
>Balassagyarmat, it will certainly get home. The ZIP code of the town is 2660.
>I wish you good luck,
>George
>
Thank you so much, George!  I really appreciate the nice people on the
Internet 8-)))))))))))))

Val


**********************************************************
"To love for the sake of being loved is human, but to love for the sake of
loving is angelic."  (Alphonse de Lamartine, 1790-1869, French Poet)
**********************************************************

In article >,
 > wrote:
>Peter Kaszas > wrote:
>>
>>A sztori tetszik, de a valaszodbol nem derul ki egyertelmuen, hogy az
>>vagy-e. En mar nem merem megkerdezni, mert felek, hogy nekem is
>>hasonlot valaszolsz, es a csunya beszedtol en sirogorcsot kapok...
>>
>Mar ne haragudj, de milyen valaszt vartal egy provokativ kerdesre?
>Te orulnel annak, ha valaki megkerdezne toled, hogy szoktad-e verni a
>feleseged?
>
>Pannon J.

Tudom, hogy nem engem kerdeztetek, de en valoszinuleg elrohognem magam egy 
ilyen kerdestol, es azt mondanam az illetonek hogy kerdezze meg a
felese'gemet.
Gyuri

Meg tudna valaki az otthoniak kozul mondani, hogy az uj PM azelott is
igy irta a nevet?  Medgyessy?  Nem volt o "csak" egy egyszeru Medgyesi?
Valahogy a "-ssy" vegzodes tul arisztokratikusnak latszott az atkosban,
foleg a fomuftiknal.

Kosz,
Pannon J.

Bodi Antalnak uzennem Nyiregyhazara hogy egyaltalan nem tamogatom a 
     felhivasat, sot tiltakozom ellene. A vitapartner elhallgattatasa (ezt 
     a regi rendszer "jol" csinalta) nem oldja meg a nemzetepites korul 
     felmerult problemakat. Ahelyett hogy szonyeg ala sepernenk a fontos, 
     neha kenyes kerdeseket, merjuk vallalni a vitat! A regi rendszer 
     gondosan kerulte e problemak felveteset, kozben "gulyas 
     kommunizmussal" etette a nepet.  Nepunknek feltetlenul meg kell 
     tisztulnia e rombolo hatas karos kovetkezmenyeitol. .
     Ket ellentetes velemeny osszecsapasa eszlelheto a sajnos sokszor durva 
     vitakban, de merem remelni mindannyian szeretnenk valahogyan 
     hozzajarulni a szep kis hazank feltamadasahoz, vagy megis tevedek?   
     fodor

You wrote:
>My father was born in Balassagyarmat, Hungary, during the 1930s.  Can 
>anyone tell me where Balassagyarmat was, and if it still exists today?

Ballassagyarmat is very much alive, about 95 km North of Budapest. It is on
the Ipoly river, which is the border with Slovakia. Balassagyarmat is on the
Hungarian side. It is not a small place at that. Good Luck. Andy
A.J. Vadasz
5743 Pignut Mtn. Dr.
Warrenton VA 22186
USA T:540 349 1408

In article >,
Gergo Javor  > wrote:
>
>Nem tudom tudja-e valaki miert nem lehet ralepni egy magyar serverre sem!!!!
------stuff deleted
>Elore is Koszonom:Gergo

 Azert mert egyik sem eleg eros, es eltorik ha ralepsz! :-)    Gyuri

On Feb 24, 1996 20:28:14 in article <Re: The Hungarians in Transylvania>,
 (Judith Toth)' wrote: 
 
>Therefore, the  
>fact that the number Rumanians of today have reached almost 30 millions is
 
>sufficient proof  to say, that over the centuries they could not have been
very  
>badly treated by the Hungarians,... because  generally the well being and 

>freedom  of an ethnic community is directly proportional with multiplying!

 
Just for the record, the white population of South Africa fell from about
25% to about 10% during the years of apartheid, while the black population
grew from about 60% to 75%.  Who was persecuted, and who persecuted during
those years? 
 
>The Transylvanian Hungarians, this almost three million strong cultural  
>community 
 
In fact, it is about 1.7 million... 
 
>And yes, there is the theory of "continuity", which is so eloquently
refuted by  
>the eminent Rumanian scholar Ovid Densusianu who wrote that "the Rumanian 

>people is not served by those who seek to denature the facts and to
deceive  
>themselves but deserves a balanced, objective and modern description of
its  
>troubled past" (Histoire de la langue roumaine, 1901) 
 
You know, research has progressed a lot since 1901.  Today, given the 
extensive evidence provided by the achaeological digs, accademia
universally accepts Romanian continuity.  Try reading books on the subject
published in the 1990's, 1980's or 1970's.  Relying on outdated
publications doesn't lead to a well-rounded knowledge of contemporary
scholarship. 
 
>There is nothing wrong in emphasizing the positive aspects of the history
of  
>one's own nation and to try to educate the youth to respect their nation's
 
>past. BUT it is not, as stated by Densusianu, real patriotism (I called it
sick  
>chauvinism!) to CONCEAL the truth and deceive onself! The propagation of
the  
>theory of continuity conceals many elementary facts and stresses obviously
 
>erroneous statements. It is needless to emphasize the danger  when the  
>Rumanians are said to be THE ONLY PEOPLE at home in South East Europe, all
 
>others are called "later colonists, invaders, barbarians and strangers!"
What  
>is next? Ethnic cleansing "a la serbians"? 
 
The Greeks also live in southeastern Europe, and not many Romanians would
call them "later colonists, invaders, barbarians [which, by the way,
derives from the Greek "barbaros" which means someone who doesn't speak
Greek] and strangers!"  The Albanians are probably of Illyrian decent,
making their lineage as ancient as any other Indo-European peoples in
Europe.  Like it or not, it is true that the Slavs, Germans, Magyars, Turks
and Tartars all entered southeastern Europe centuries, or even millenia
later. 
 
Alexander

Today is the 68th day of 1996 with 298 remaining.
    The moon is waning and gibbous, moving towards its last quarter. (20)
    The morning stars are Mercury, Mars, Jupiter.
    The evening stars are Venus, Saturn.
    Those born on this date are under the sign of Pisces.

Maya Long Count: 12. 19. 2. 17. 8.  8-Lamat  16 Kayab
Mexica: MACTLACTLI-Tecpatl. CHICUEI-Tochtli Tecuilhuitontli MACTLACTLI
Otomi: RETA-Aneyaxi. HIAHTO-Anqhua. Anttzengohmuh RETA
Purepecha: TEMBEN-Tzhinapu. YUNTANIMU-Auani. Uazcata conscuaro TEMBEN
Zapotec Yza: 7-Pija. Chij: 8-Lapa. Cocijo: 1-Chilla. Cocij: 1-Chilla.
    Viernes 8 de Marzo de 1996

International Women's Day

1565 Years Ago, in 431:
    [8.19.15.3.4] Bahlum-Kuk accedes and founds the dynasty of Palenque.

1135 Years Ago, in 861:
    [Day 6-Ehecatl Year 5-Tecpatl] North Mural, Building A at Cacaxtla is
    dedicated.

380 Years Ago, in 1616:
    The Inquistion in New Spain publishes an edict against astrologers
    and banning books and publications on that subject.

In article >,  says...

>Kedves Laszlo Katkits!
>Szeretnem felhivni a figyelmedet arra, hogy nem 7, hanem 6 millio
>zsido halt martirhalalt a veszkorszakban, es a legujabb kori (nem
>revizionista) kutatasok is legrosszabb esetben csak 6,2-6,4 milliot
>felteteleznek.
  Mar olvastam mindenfele szamokat. Van aki azt allitja hogy nem
is oltek a zsidokat, ez csak zsido propaganda, szerinte a fenti szam
tulajdonkeppen 0. Van aki meg azokat is ide szamolja, akiket
szigoru ertelemben nem megoltek, agyonlottek, elgazositottak,
hanem olyan korulmenyek koze kenyszeritettek amiben siettetett
termeszetes halat haltak, pl. megfagytak, ehenpusztultak, betegseget
szereztek, stb. Igy mar tizmillio fole emelkednek a szamok.
Tudomasom szerint a 7 millio egy viszonylag jo megkozelites, de
ha szerinted CSAK 6 millio volt, hat OK, nem vitatom.
  Sokkal erdekesbb amit Kongorol irsz. Es mivel errol meg nem
hallottam, folcsaptam minden konyvet, amit hirtelen elo tudtam
keriteni, lexikont meg ilyesmiket. Es tudod mit talaltam? 
Hogy ilyen nepirtas nem volt! Ezt irod:

>Azt is szeretnem, ha tudnad, hogy a szazadfordulo tajekan Kongo a
>belga kiraly maganbirtoka volt (meg csak nem is gyarmat!) es a
>lelketlen kizsakmanyolasnak hala, Kongo 25 millios lakossagat sikerult
>tiz ev alatt alig tobb, mint 5 milliora apasztani. Tiz ev alatt 15
>millio (raadasul joval fejletlenebb eszkozokkel) sokkal tobb, mint hat
>ev alatt hatmillio...

Nos utana neztem: Az a terulet, amit II Leopold 1885-tol 1908-ig
birtokolt, magab foglalja a mai Kongot es Zairet es reszeket Kamerunbol,
Ezeken a teruleteken ma bo 32 millioan elnek. Evi 100%%-es (Iszonyuan
eltulzottan magas!) nepessegnovekedest szamolva sem lehetett 90
evvel ezelott kevesebb mint 16 millio. Valami nem stimmel a szamjaiddal.
Vagy egyszeruen az eredeti Belga-Kongo lakossagat kerd szamon a mai
Kongo nevu orszagon (1,8 millio lakos.) Biztos vagyok benne, hogy a
gyarmati lakossagnak akkori eletkorulmenyeit nem lehet rozsasnak
venni, de ha ilyen nepirtas esett volna, arrol ugy gondolom nem
lenne nehez tudni.
  Mire jo ez az egesz hozzaszolas akkor? Talan arra, hog amig
a Kongoi esemenyek valosagtartalmat vitatjuk, balkezrol eltorpit-
heto a Holocaust. Hogy ebben mi a jo, azt csak te tudod, en nem
tudok rajonni.
  Ha mindenaron hasonlitani akarja valaki a nepek szenvedeseit,
akkor tessek elohozni az altalam masodik helyre szavazott ormeny
nepet, amibol 40 nap alatt kozel 1 milliot oltek meg a torokok,
es akiknek meg mindig nem adtak meg a jogot, hogy nemzeti allamot
alapitsanak. A ciganyok a harmadik helyre jonnek nalam.
  De azert hadd mondjam meg, egyik nepet sem uldoztek 2000 even at.
Az indianokat pedig azok a keresztenyek irtottak ki, akik a
zsidokat vadoljak a vilaguralomra valo torekvessel. Ez itt csak
a Zsoter Andras altal emlitettekben rejlo ironiara valo utalas.
Tessek mar megmondani nekem, melyik nepet ragalmaztak annyit mint
a zsidokat az evszazadok soran? A bantukat Kongoban? OK a ciganyok
is kaptak rendesen. Legalabbis 6-700 evet a 2000-bol.
Kaszas Peter, a hozzaszolasod nekem ugy tunik hogy hijan volt
mondanivalonak, csak szerettel volna valmit Te is hozzaszolni.
OK megtetted, talan maradhatna mindez ennyiben is.

>engem nehezen nevezhetnek antiszemitanak, hiszen zsido vagyok...
>Udv:
>Kaszi

  Te komolyan azt mondod hogy antiszemita csak nem-zsido lehet,
es a zsidokat csak zsidok vedhetnek? Ezt becsszora komolyan ?

//Laszlo
P.S. Ha van ellenorizheto adatod az allitolagos Kongoi emberirtassal
kapcsolatban, ne hagyj tudatlansagban.

Val Campbell wrote:
>
>My father was born in Balassagyarmat, Hungary, during the 1930s.  Can 
>anyone tell me where Balassagyarmat was, and if it still exists today?
>
>Also, if it is no longer, how can I access my father's birth records?  
>Where?  Does anyone know?
>
>
Good news, Val. Balassagyarmat, a small town with ca. 18,000 inhabitants
does exist in county Nogra'd, at a distance of ca. 80 km to North of
Budapest, our capital. 
I presume your dad's birth records are accessible either at the church he
was christened in or at some of the offices of the town hall. I do not know
the addresses, but if you send a letter to the town hall or the Mayor of
Balassagyarmat, it will certainly get home. The ZIP code of the town is 2660.
I wish you good luck,
George

George Jalsovszky
> ============================================================================
Central Research Institute for Chemistry, Hungarian Academy of Sciences
H-1525 Budapest, P.O.Box 17, Hungary. Phone:+361-212-2900; Fax:+361-212-5020
http://www.osp.chemres.hu/jalso/~jalso_h.htm
> ============================================================================

 (Zsoter Andras) wrote:

>>Laszlo Katkits > wrote:
>>
>>
>>| De annyit mindenesetre megkovetelhet minden zsido a legyilkolt
>>| 7 millio neveben, hogy senki se gyalazza emlekuket, senki se hasonlitsa
>                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>| nepenek sanyaru sorsat a zsidok szenvedeseihez. Soha meg semmilyen nepet
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>| nem uldoztek ilyen sokaig, soha semmilyen nepet nem irtottak meg igy.
>>| Es ha lehetne valami haszna a 7 millio halalanak, akkor az lehetne,
>>| hogy soha semmilyen nepnek ne is kelljen ilyen borzalom toredeket sem
>>| elszenvednie.
>>

Kedves Laszlo Katkits!
Szeretnem felhivni a figyelmedet arra, hogy nem 7, hanem 6 millio
zsido halt martirhalalt a veszkorszakban, es a legujabb kori (nem
revizionista) kutatasok is legrosszabb esetben csak 6,2-6,4 milliot
felteteleznek.
Azt is szeretnem, ha tudnad, hogy a szazadfordulo tajekan Kongo a
belga kiraly maganbirtoka volt (meg csak nem is gyarmat!) es a
lelketlen kizsakmanyolasnak hala, Kongo 25 millios lakossagat sikerult
tiz ev alatt alig tobb, mint 5 milliora apasztani. Tiz ev alatt 15
millio (raadasul joval fejletlenebb eszkozokkel) sokkal tobb, mint hat
ev alatt hatmillio...
Azt hiszem, hogy az olyanok, akik ki akarjak sajatitani, kvazi a
monopoliumunkka akarjak tenni a szenvedest, szegyent hoznak a
zsidosagra. Minden neppel tortentek (tortennek) szornyu
igazsagtalansagok, ez alol sajna egyik sem kivetel. Egyedul az utolso
mondatoddal tudok egyeterteni (a szamadattol eltekintve). Teljes
mertekben egyet kell ertenem Zsoter Andrissal, attol eltekintve, hogy
engem nehezen nevezhetnek antiszemitanak, hiszen zsido vagyok...
Udv:
Kaszi